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Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: More on ARA San Juan
Latest could find:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5111129/Has-missing-submarine-located-Navy-spots-object.html |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2671
Location: New Jersey | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Thanks for the update Ron. Very sad and brings back bad memories of when the Scorpion & Thresher sank. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2974
Location: Liverpool, England | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/11/23/gavin-williamson-offers-condolences-to-argentina-after-submarine/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Crelated_lnk1%26pLid%3D291754326_uk&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Crelated_lnk1%26pLid%3D291754326_uk
Pedro |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
I have no way to doubt the veracity of this news , but please bare in mind that the Daily Mail is a notorious tabloid in the UK. I believe it is owned by Richard Murdock. I await conformation by more reputable news sources. Just saying....
Steamboat sends |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 539
Location: Palm Bay, Florida | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Virtually the same info reported by BBC. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Thanks Ken. I always look at any news source by reputation. There is a lot of inacurate reporting out there.
Very sad that the ARA San Juan has gone down in history books with USS Thresher,USS Scorpion, Russian Kursk and now ARA San Juan as boats sunk with all hands during our (adult) lifetime. I think there have been other more than several Soviet submarine loses that are not well reported, however. All brothers of the Phin who deserve our respect and condolences to surviving families.
Steamboat sends
Edited by steamboat 2017-11-24 6:33 AM
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 877
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Wondering if the condition of the SAN JUAN after its overhaul in 2014 had something to do with this... reminds me of information that I received from the daughter of Felix Artuso, the Argentinian killed aboard ARA SANTA FE (S-21) on 26 April 1982 in Grytviken, South Georgia.... she told me that her father was afraid of going out to sea on SANTA FE.. due to her condition... will have to check my information, but SANTA FE's batteries were shot, could barely maintain a dive, etc. |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9163
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
The US has had its share of battery explosions, dating back to its beginnings. If there had been some sort of sea water leak, (piping, weld joint), in combination with its entry into the battery well/s this could have resulted in a massive explosion that could have then resulted in a hull implosion. (Just speculating on my part. I can only hope it was fast and sudden so the crew didn't suffer.)
Sailors, rest your oars. Others now have the watch. R.I.P.
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1266
Location: Hopewell Junction NY | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Jim M. - 2017-11-24 10:34 AMWondering if the condition of the SAN JUAN after its overhaul in 2014 had something to do with this... reminds me of information that I received from the daughter of Felix Artuso, the Argentinian killed aboard ARA SANTA FE (S-21) on 26 April 1982 in Grytviken, South Georgia.... she told me that her father was afraid of going out to sea on SANTA FE.. due to her condition... will have to check my information, but SANTA FE's batteries were shot, could barely maintain a dive, etc.
Odd to me are statements that stated initially that the boat was on the surface with " a battery problem", followed by "they think they have corrected the problem and are SUBMERGING and returning to base."
Was the sea state so severe that transiting submerged ON THE BATTERY was as better choice than remaining on the surface?
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Plankowner
Posts: 9163
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
I was thinking the same thing. I then started looking at the hull. It isn't designed to be on the surface. It is an underwater hull unlike our WW II style diesels that had the hull form to ride it out on the roof. Even at periscope depth we'd roll all over the place in a nuc and when it got nasty we'd go deep. even at 400 feet it had us moving around pretty good sometimes. So maybe it was a choice. Maybe they really weren't surfaced at all. Sort of a moot point it seems now. So sad. Perhaps if she is found some answers may be had. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1266
Location: Hopewell Junction NY | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Obvious that they did not understand the seriousness of the problem. Sailors Rest your oars. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2974
Location: Liverpool, England | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
So from this I would extrapolate that reading both the Independent and the Times together would probably give you the most balance. The Independent is biased towards the left and the Times the right, but neither are extremist. I would definitely never read the Daily Mail ( too much like the NY Times) the Daily Express or the Sun not just because they are fairly extreme in their right wing bias but more because they have absolutely no moral code.
There was a time when you could rely upon the BBC for honest reporting of political and newsworthy events. Sadly, that is no longer the case as the corporation is riddled with cheap hacks and news producers who peddle their own spin and opinions rather than hard facts and it is all done at the public's expense.
If you own a TV set in the UK you are legally required to pay for a Television Licence, This will currently cost you the princely sum of £147 ($196) per year all of which goes into the BBC coffers. Stores or outlets selling TV sets are duty bound to report your purchase to the BBC and then they are locked onto you from day one. It doesn't matter that you may never watch a single BBC channel but watch the myriad other independent stations available you will be fined in excess of £1000 ($ 1,333) on each occasion you are detected. These measures are rigorously pursued through the courts for payment or will on non-payment incur prison time.
I have no time for Rupert Murdoch who is a ruthless media oligarch but he is only matched by the same greedy free-loaders at the BBC. They don't even need to try, as they are cushioned with a soft job-for-life on unlimited budgets paid for by the man/woman in the street. They live in their luvvy environment run by a hierarchy of management who all bat for the other side (if you get my drift), so much so it is probably a prerequisite for employment. What other nation on Earth has this kind of bent BS organisation and who would put up with it?
The point is that although I detest and condemn both the BBC and Murdoch there is no way they can alter the facts coming from official Armada Argentina or South American news sources on the submarine disaster as too many people are getting the same story. Personally, I think the best thing is to try getting your news from talking to people and researching online as near the source of origin you can possibly access
Pedro
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Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Aren't "battery explosions" actually the explosion of the hydrogen and oxygen given off during charge and discharge operations?
Am I missing something that would cause a battery itself to explode ? Now would one expect pressure hull damage?
Probably regardless of origin, an explosion in the boat whether on the surface or down would likely incapacitate the crew.
Anyone have any history on this?
All this is trying in my mind to determine if the boat sunk and if so, why?
Why didn't the crew blow it to the surface if they were well enough to do so? Maybe I am too used to purely manual blow from the HP air manifold.
Maybe we will find out.
Hopefully something will be corrected for future operations and the crew didn't die in vain.
Ron |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3666
Location: Kansas City Missouri | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
What if the Oceans are fed up with humanity, watching us harm their domain with reckless behavior for centuries. This could simply be a vast part of our only home once again saying....NO, you go away....I'll remain and recover....again.
Or, s**t happens!
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 851
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Pedro - 2017-11-24 3:27 PM
If you own a TV set in the UK you are legally required to pay for a Television Licence, This will currently cost you the princely sum of £147 ($196) per year all of which goes into the BBC coffers. Stores or outlets selling TV sets are duty bound to report your purchase to the BBC and then they are locked onto you from day one.
Pedro
That is so wrong I can't even fathom it. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Do they still run commercials on the tube in addition to the larceny? |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2974
Location: Liverpool, England | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Ron/Ian,
Before the advent of television the BBC used to impose a Radio Licence fee. But with the introduction of vast numbers of transistor radios, made in Japan, being brought home by armed forces and Merchant Navy personnel from the Far East, the BBC could no longer control or force the licence fee and they were made to discontinue it. They were so old-fashioned that they refused to play rock'n'roll music on their stations even in the early sixties. This led to offshore pirate stations like Radio Caroline and Radio London being set up to meet the musical demands of young people. The popular pirate radio ships were after some years legally shut down at the insistence of the BBC, but not before they were made to realise what dinosaurs they were, by not accepting and providing modern music trends. They set up shows on TV like Top of The Pops etc but they fell well short of the more popular and innovative DJ's on the pirate ships.
The reason for the TV licence is because they do not play commercials and that is how they generate income. This is not entirely true as they constantly advertise on all their many channels the DVD's and box sets of BBC shows that they market and sell around the world. To be honest they do produce some excellent quality TV shows and many of those can be found on Netflix, but it is their biased reporting of world/political news that leaves much to be desired. I may not live to see it but I think that they will eventually be forced to earn their crust by using commercials to support themselves in the not too distant future. I forgot to mention that should you survive beyond the age of 75 you no longer need to pay the TV licence fee. How wonderfully kind of those robbing buggers at the BBC.
Pedro 
Edited by Pedro 2017-11-26 11:57 AM
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Pedro, when I was in Scotland this September I only turned on a TV once merely for the curiosity of what your TV would look like. Why is it that in Scotland there WERE commercials? And also I noticed a lot of American programming. I do not recall which station it was, but is TV that different in England and Scotland?
Also, from a former post, I do not understand your categorizing of the New York Times, one of the most prestigious newspapers in the world, in fact often considered as the newspaper of record by many historians a tabloid.
Steamboat sends |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2974
Location: Liverpool, England | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Steamboat,
If you were getting commercials on TV in Scotland on that one occasion you mention, then you were watching an independent channel such as ITV or ITV2 or one of many other commercial channels. At this time (whatever its aspirations, or not, for Independence) Scotland is still part of the UK so the BBC is broadcast nationally. The BBC do not have commercials other than those for their own global products as I previously explained.
Some American shows I enjoy and there are some I could care less about. Much like I'm sure your own viewpoint on British shows on your networks. I'm sure that both sides enjoy the monies generated importing/exporting them from their original sources with no regard for either of us and what we think.
Concerning the NY Times. I find little difference between it and the Daily Mail. Whilst many may think the NY Times is an ideal tabloid, there will be many that share the view that the Daily Mail is also the bees knees in journalism. However, I do not rate either of them so it's a matter of personal preference, to which I think you will agree we are all entitled.
Pedro
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 560
Location: Minot, Maine | Subject: Pedro!
Ya can't beat Mrs Brown!!! |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1576
Location: Wollongong, NSW | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
NY Times lost its reputation when it reported Opinion as News. Hasn't really regained since. Still politically biased. |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 851
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Why is a Norwegian ship carrying our underwater rescue vessels? No ASR's anymore?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-undersea-rescue-module-arriving-sub-area-argentina-194653532.html
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 715
Location: Conway, NH | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
fortyrod - 2017-11-28 5:44 AM
No ASR's anymore?
Not since 1999. |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 715
Location: Conway, NH | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
I got the date wrong. USS Ortolan ASR 22 was decommissioned on 30 Mar 1995. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: More on ARA San Juan
Question: Have they found the ARA San Juan? I read where some news "rag" says it was a battery explosion. Another says the snorkel system flooded and yet another say it was a leak in the periscopes that flooded the battery wells. Some say it was on the surface and another says an implosion. All of it is just speculation unless they have been able to put there hands on it.
The news media is pure and simple total BS. You can't even believe the store sales anymore. Years ago the news media reported news. These days they feed us BS that people suck up and believe the political crap and phony accusations.
The news media #1 idea today is to sell "news" stories. The more BS they can pump up and glamorize the more the public buys. Many people have a very difficult time separating real facts from fantasy. The news media realizes that and feeds extra BS and the public sucks it up.
That's my rant for the month. Later!
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More on ARA San Juan
