|
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1323
Location: Oxnard, CA | Subject: Shore power
When you came into port, the boat was obviously connected to shore power and the engines were shut down. Was the boat able to charge batteries (equalizing or otherwise) from shore power, or did the charge require running an engine?
Also posted on Rontini's BBS
|
|
| |
|
Plankowner
Posts: 5024
Location: Gulfport, MS | Subject: RE: Shore power
This seems like the perfect time to share some Archerfish memories. This tale unfolded in Subic Bay...
From the Deck Log on January 16, 1965 - 1022 - Moored starboard side to ARDM-5.
USS Perch (APSS-313) was home ported at Subic and was in the floating dry dock for a partial overhaul. Before leaving port we were asked by COMSUBFLOT SEVEN to go alongside the dry dock and charge Perch's batteries. Just by the grace of God before getting underway - almost as an afterthought - we checked the outboard side of the dry dock by looking down from the wing wall and found she was moored outboard with three or four chains perpendicular to the dock in shallow catenaries to supplement primary mooring to the seawall inboard. The chart showed the dock but not the mooring chains; had we just gone alongside we certainly would have creamed the bow and possibly wiped the rudder and screws. To avoid the chains we pulled up parallel to the dock and ran double-length heaving lines over by Ship Repair Facility small boat, then pulled in slowly with capstans keeping our tender points between the chains. When we were alongside our keel was resting against the chains and we found later some paint had been rubbed off, but no damage. I can't think of Subic without feeling a bit gushy.
Gordon W. (Captain) Engquist
* * * *
We had been in port for twelve days and most of the troops were out of money. Most of us were ready to go to sea and catch up on some much-needed sleep. The maneuvering watch was stationed, engines warmed up, lines singled and the boat was starting to breast out when we received a message from Harbor Control to stand fast. Then we were told to go alongside the floating dry dock AFDM-5. We soon found out why; the USS Perch (APSS-313), which was high and dry in the dry dock, was in dire need of a battery charge. Apparently their Engineering Officer had ordered his electricians to water batteries after they brought him the gravity reading. They told him that it would require a battery charge if they watered, but when he saw how low the heights were he told them to water anyhow. Big mistake. Cables were run from our cubicle to theirs and we were delayed from getting underway for almost six hours while we charged their batteries. One good thing came out of the whole mess; all the guys who didn't have duty got to go say good by to their sweeties again.
Donald L. (Earthquake) McCready
* * * *
Perch stayed in dry dock longer than planned and as a result they needed a refresher charge. At least I think it was a refresher charge they needed, isn't that the one due every 21 days while laid up? Then there was the equalizer (better known to us as a paralyzer). I can’t believe I've forgotten all that stuff! I'd have bet you a fortune when I was a young man that I'd never forget anything about charging batteries.
Larry (Light Lunch) Meyer
* * * *
January 17 - 1550 - Underway from alongside ARDM-5.
* * * *
Before any of you Perch guys deny this, we have pictures  |
|
| |
|
Senior Crew
Posts: 225
Location: San Diego, CA | Subject: RE: Shore power
When the Barbel was coming out of the yards with new batteries, we charged batteries with a dockside portable diesel/generator charging unit.
It was basically the same engine/generator we had on the boat, but was moved by a crane to where ever it was needed.
|
|
| |
|
COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2672
Location: New Jersey | Subject: RE: Shore power
Jon,
If you mean smokeboats we ran our engines for the charge, regardless of shore power, whether an equalizer or regular charge. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1602
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Interesting, I never thought about batteries on a diesel having to be replaced. Roughly, what's the longest batteries can last without having to be replaced on diesels. My old Reserve boat the Roncador use to sit like a cork in the water for our one weekend a month meetings - I assume our 250 batteries were used for an active boat. We were told the reason for the shallow draft was because the batteries were removed and the space was filled with concrete. Also maybe three times a year a boat would come up from San Diego and take us on a weekend cruise. The visiting boats had the go ahead to take parts from the Roncador.
My memory is shot, but I seem to remember starting one engine on the Roncador. We were told our diesel was equivalent to a Greyhound bus engine so I imagine a bus battery would suffice to start our boat.
Also, one more naive question. Do the modern boats still have a backup diesel engine - boomers included, and do they have any battery capability?
|
|
| |
|
Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 715
Location: Conway, NH | Subject: RE: Shore power
Gil - 2020-06-30 12:53 PM
Do the modern boats still have a backup diesel engine - boomers included, and do they have any battery capability?
Yes to both. |
|
| |
|
Plankowner
Posts: 9164
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Shore power
In 1969 Cusk may have been one of these boats. I was riding Cusk for a couple of weeks and as my time was coming to an end we took off and went up to Long Beach and moored to Roncador. I got my first shower in a week or so on her then checked out from Cusk and was off to the LA Airport to go home. After I left Cusk probably took out some Reservists for the weekend.
My uniform must have stunk to high heaven of Diesel Boat as people were not keen sitting next to me on the airplane.  Dives on the Cusk were my last dives. Love to do it one more time. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1576
Location: Wollongong, NSW | Subject: RE: Shore power
Oboat batteries were changed every refit - after the four or five year running period. A 'bad' cell could be changed.Otway required a charge during an engine rebuild alongside at Pearl Harbor (1975). A diesel electric locomotive was brought to the wharf but from memory, not very successful. Our two submarine base areas could provide power for gassing charges and any other submarine requirement. Nuclear boats on their first visit to WA were very surprised when base staff descended and hooked up the boat 'in short time.' |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Shore power
If Roncador has her original engines, they were s bit more than a Greyhound bus engine. A standard Greyhound bus engine would likely have been a GM 6-71. ^cylinder 71 cu in per cylinder. Abt 200 hp A standard GM sub engine was a 16-278 16 cylinder 278 cu in per cylinder. The sub engines cranked with compressed air.
Have no idea what they might have put in a reserve boat. I know Cobia when the reserve boat in Milwaukee was all standard but no screws or batteries. The engines could be started.
My recollection on battery replacement was they lasted about 2 years. Some probably longer but Entemedor got a battery job as noted.
We could not or did not charge batteries from shore power. To start a charge required 2 engines running. Could finish on only 1.
Can't imagine the size of cable needed to do a battery charge from shore power or where it could be connected.
Edited by Holland Club 2020-06-30 8:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1890
Location: Patterson, New York | Subject: RE: Shore power
The 657 and 658, if I remember correctly, had Fairbanks Morse diesels. (opposed pistons??)
Before each patrol while on sea trials, we would run on the surface with the diesel for about an half hour to make sure it worked; and we would then snorkel for about 15 minutes.
Part of the qualifications was to know how to start the diesel and engage the shaft.
You had to explain step by step what to do to get things running.
If you did not check for a raised snorkel mast before starting your explanation, you failed.
We also had an "egg beater" electric propeller under AMR 2 which could be run by the diesel.
Polaris carried enough fuel to make it to a safe port. You had to draw and explain a diagram of the NFO system which was several tanks and valves.
You had to know how the sea water worked to compensate for used diesel if large amounts were consumed.
|
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Shore power
Yep. Fairbanks-Morse is the other manufacturer of submarine diesels. No clue as to what was installed in nukes but smoke boats had FM 38D8 1/8 engines.
Also correct. Opposed pistons instead of cylinder heads. Two crankshafts connected by vertical drive. You can Google for more skinny.
Go here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks_Morse_38_8-1/8_diesel_engine
It does mention this is the same engine used on nukes as back up power.
Edited by Holland Club 2020-07-01 6:00 AM
|
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1602
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Ron,
Do I understand you correctly that some diesel boat batteries could be replaced as often as every two years? I assume that they could be rebuilt rather than go in than scrapped. On our GUPPY III I just have a hard time visualizing the dry dock replacing 500 tons of batteries with 500 tons of batteries every few years.
|
|
| |
|
Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 853
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Holland Club - 2020-06-30 8:28 PM
My recollection on battery replacement was they lasted about 2 years. Some probably longer but Entemedor got a battery job as noted.
SS490 - New batteries when I went on at Hunters Point. Same batteries 4 years later when the boat was transferred to the Italians. I think they lasted more then two years. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1602
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Ian,
Your boat and my boat (SS-524) had some similar experiences. When your boat was heading to Hong Kong in January of'68 my boat was heading to Yokosuka to begin Westpac, this coincided with the capture of the Pueblo. Also both boats were sold to Italy at the same time, and were renamed. In fact after they were renamed there seemed to be some confusion with which boat was which.
Do you have any idea about what Italians do with scrapped boats? I was hoping mine could have been used for a Ferrari. My Facebook group keeps in contact with the Italian crew after Italy bought my boat, but none of them seems to know about post scrap.
|
|
| |
|
Historian
Posts: 190
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Submarine batteries had to be replaced by how many cycles they had on them. One cycle being charge and discharge of the rated amphours. Different battery types had different ratings. In general there were two types of batteries on board diesel boats. Non guppy boats had thick plate batteries such as the MLB-27. These had to be replaced every 4-5 years depending on operations. Guppy boats had the thin plate batteries such as the TLX-53. The number indicates the number of plates per cell.
Submarine batteries could be replaced without drydocking. On a diesel boat there was a soft patch in the Forward and After Battery compartments. A bolted or welded plate in the deck was removed and the soft patch was removed. The patch and plate were just big enough to haul out or insert one cell at a time. It normally took 3 to 4 days to remove and insert a new battery set then another couple of days for the intercell connectors to be bolted in and the cells wedged. Ship's force E-div helped but did not get in the way. The work was done by the base battery shop or a yard's battery shop. They were really good.
Does anyone remember the SubBase New London battery scandal of the mid 70's?
Nuc battery replacement is similar to diesel boats but utilized a deck hatch rather than a hull cut.
|
|
| |
|
Historian
Posts: 190
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Guppy batteries were replaced every 3-4 years. Hard running Guppy IIA and Guppy III had their batteries replaced sooner. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1602
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Thank you Jim for that information - I just assumed battery life was considerably longer. Most likely because of all the TLC the batteries receive over their life. I know it's apples and oranges, but my car battery life has been 4 years plus or minus two months since 2012 on my current car.
Would each cell on a Guppy III weigh approximately a ton each? |
|
| |
|
Plankowner
Posts: 9164
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Shore power
We were in at Pearl when Pueblo happened.
We were gone to stand off Wonson within a week. Loaded for bear!
That is where we broke the top off our #2 scope. |
|
| |
|
Historian
Posts: 190
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Between 1500 and 2000 pounds each. Dry at 1500-1600 pounds and wet nearer 2000. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1602
| Subject: RE: Shore power
When we arrived in Yokosuka in January of '68 we were one of only a few ships left there because of the Pueblo. Almost every ship there had left port to await what we would do about the Pueblo capture. Latter we saw the sister ship of the Pueblo, the Banner steaming around Japan.
Crossing from Pearl was rough on us. Heavy storms had torn off two clam shells completely and done other minor damage. Guys that never had gotten seasick stood their watches for four days with #10 cans ready. It was the only time we ever attached lifelines for lookout. I couldn't believe it when the bridge went through one green water five feet above my head, we were at least 40 feet above the water line. In the AB the gauge showed up to 33 degree rolls. Coming from relatively smooth and calm Oahu made it especially rough on this green sailor.
Having Yokosuka to ourselves for two weeks was the only redeeming factor. That ended when the Kitty Hawk came back to port, and then later came to Sasebo while we were there.
I learned to hate the sight of carriers in port. We got back at them though, we got to "sink" either the Kitty Hawk, or Ranger one time in a simulated attack near Yankee Station.
One thing that amazed me was the incredible work effort of the Japanese yard workers in Yokosuka compared to the Oahu yard worker.. We got temporary clam shell covers in less than a week that fit perfectly. Instead of measuring with tape measures they used string coated in chalk to mark off dimensions - never saw that before or since. They also had our Loran C work for the first time ever, unfortunately a week after we went to sea it went back to its dormant state.
|
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Shore power
Thanks Jim. Just as I remember on the hard charging Entemedor. One year (I think 59 or 60,) we were out of home port 265 days out of 365. And it wasn't making liberty ports either.
Gil, I never heard of refurbishing a submarine battery. What would that consist of?
In port we did a charge every other night. Equalizer as required.
The EMs could jumper out a cell that didn't respond normally to the charge. If we had a few cells jumpered, it was time to head to Portsmouth.
Just for the record. When I joined Entemedor in Sqd 10 NL the only nukes there were Nautilus and Seawolf. Seawolf spent a lot of time in the yard so we and the other smokeboats took care of business.
In 2 years we would put a serious numbers of cycles on the battery.
|
|
| |
|
Plankowner
Posts: 9164
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Shore power
In Sub School, on one of the landings in one of the buildings, there was a battery cell. Pretty damn big for only 2 volts. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1602
| Subject: RE: Shore power
Ron,
I was just comparing it to an auto battery again. When you turn in the old one they use to apply a discount towards the price of a new one. I was thinking the battery manufacturer would be able to make some use of the old batteries.
Edited by Gil 2020-07-03 9:03 AM
|
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1576
Location: Wollongong, NSW | Subject: RE: Shore power
Generally the battery casings were reusable, with little work required, for several running cycles.However because of acid attack, the Lead Plates were not reused but melted to go into the mix to cast new plates. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Shore power
Nit picker.. 2.5 volts. |
|
| |
Shore power
