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At random: John Philip Holland built several submarines before the USS Holland, which became the first undersea craft commissioned by the U.S. Navy. The Holland was purchased on April 11, 1900 for a price of $150,000. It was commissioned into the US Navy on October 12, 1900.
WWII sub story research
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Roland
Posted 2007-01-08 5:42 PM (#1564)
Mess cooking

Posts: 6

Subject: WWII sub story research

I was a Sea Scout in 1964-65, and we used to tie up our US Navy 50 foot pilot boat to a pair of WWII submarines at the Admiral Kidd Club off Shelter Island in San Diego harbor. I believe one was the USS Trepang, and the other might have been the USS Perch. One of them sat much higher in the water, I believe due to its batteries having been removed.

I am doing some research on writing a fictional story involving a WWII sub.

Is there anyone here who would be willing to trade email addresses who I could consult for various data needed? Credit could of course be given in a credit page in the front of the book. I would of course 'not' be interested in any information considered classified. I would just like to ask a few questions about how certain parts of the subs worked, or how certain Navy sub rules or habits went. I am projecting that this would be about a two year project. It depends on how much progress I make in technical background. Or if no one responds, would it be alright if I posted questions here? Thank you.

Roland
C Stafford
Posted 2007-01-09 8:21 AM (#1577 - in reply to #1564)
Senior Crew

Posts: 224

Location: San Diego, CA
Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

The submarine was the USS Trepang, SS412 I think. It was part of the Navy Reserve Center in San Diego. I can't remember if the batteries were taken out. WWII boats always sat up high compared to the boats today.

Chris
Roland
Posted 2007-01-09 9:46 AM (#1578 - in reply to #1564)
Mess cooking

Posts: 6

Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

Sorry, I should have explained it better. There were two WWII subs side by side, with the pilot boat alongside of the outboard one. One sub sat much higher than the other.

Is there any way to lock an external deck hatch shut from the inside? The one you walk the top deck, and pull up to get down inside?
C Stafford
Posted 2007-01-09 1:48 PM (#1581 - in reply to #1564)
Senior Crew

Posts: 224

Location: San Diego, CA
Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

There is nothing on the actual hatch to lock it. You could always tie a rope from the hatch wheel to the ladder to keep the hatch from opening. Normally, it is something you wouldn't do. During WWII, they might have done something like that to keep the hatch from lifting while being depth charged.
Roland
Posted 2007-01-09 3:26 PM (#1583 - in reply to #1564)
Mess cooking

Posts: 6

Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

Thank you. That is an invaluable bit of data for me, about the hatch having no locking device. If I could explain the plot, someone else could copy it, so with regrets, I can't say precisely why I need to know these things. Anyone of course is free to guess.

The pressure doors between compartments, do they all pull open for'ard or aft?

I just received a copy of [The Silent Service in World War II: The Fleet Type Submarine]. It is an excellent book, but still does not tell me the precise location or dimensions of the Skipper's quarters, or anything about the internal electrical system.

I also received a DVD of [Run Silent, Run Deep], which should give some idea of the interior. When Ubisoft's new [Silent Hunter IV] comes out, it should go one even better.

When the sub is in port and docked, what kind of electrical supply was available internally? House current or 112 volts A/C? Or 24vdc? House-type wall outlets? No outlets?

In the galley, did the stove and oven run on 24 volts both at sea and in port at the dock?
Roland
Posted 2007-01-10 10:30 AM (#1588 - in reply to #1564)
Mess cooking

Posts: 6

Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

I seem to have found the manual, [The Fleet Type Submarine], [NAVPERS 16162], [Submarine Electrical Installations], on-line here;
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/index.htm

In fact, looks like the whole set may be in there. Using HTTrack website copier, available as a free download here;
http://www.httrack.com/
I should be able to copy the entire website for off-line use with just a few clicks.

But it would be so much easier if someone would please tell me what kind of electrical system they had in the subs. I see pictures in the 16160 manual of household appliances, and I just don't know if these really are household appliances using civvy house current, 110 volts A/C, or if they were specially modified for sub use at a different voltage. Same goes for the submarine movie. What I see may not be what I assume.

I'll keep working on this. My other book, an epic Biblical adventure, [Si'Wren of the Patriarchs], is coming out in about two months.

Anyways, here's to a great bunch with an exemplary history of service to our country.
Roland
Posted 2007-01-10 11:23 AM (#1589 - in reply to #1564)
Mess cooking

Posts: 6

Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

By the way, the illustrations in the back of the physical manual, NAVPERS 16160, are not very useful, being of faded print and so tiny as to be almost unreadable. By contrast, the online manual has much larger illustrations, perfect clarity, and in multi-color. And the online one is free to download or view.
C Stafford
Posted 2007-01-10 1:48 PM (#1590 - in reply to #1564)
Senior Crew

Posts: 224

Location: San Diego, CA
Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

This info is from a post WWII diesel boat.
Boats had 60 cycle, 110 volts AC from Motor Generators; 400 cycle, 220 volts ? AC from a Motor Generator and 500 volts DC which powered the main motors.
DC power came from the batteries that were charged from generators on each engine.
They also had low voltage systems that kept emergency battle lantern charged.

That is the best my memory can provide.
Lee Davenport
Posted 2007-01-11 10:14 AM (#1608 - in reply to #1564)
Crew

Posts: 92

Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

Although it has been many many years since I was a crew member on a WWII type sub, here is what I remember about them. Hatches that allowed access from the outside of the ship had what we referred to as "doublers" on them. These were large round steel plates that were bolted onto the access hatch inside the submarine. We had to put them up whenever we were being used as an exercise target. Interior pressure hatches swung either way depending on where they were located and the best area available. IE: The hatch between forward battery (officers quarters) swung forward into officers quarters, while the one between control and after battery swung aft into the after battery. WWII subs had two battery banks of 126 cells each. These each provided a nominal 250 volts DC. That was used to operate the main propulsion motors, and some other electrical equipment(water distillers, pumps, air compressors, etc) including the stove in the galley. The batteries could also be connected in series which provided 500 volts to the main motors for short spurts of high speed. The batteries also ran motor-generator sets which provided 120 volts, 60 cycle power for most of the rest of the electrical equipment. By the time I was assigned to a sub, they had small flourescent lighting fixtures, so I don't know what sort of lighting they had in WWII. I assusme that it was regular house type incadescent bulbs, as I have heard WWII crewmen say the light bulbs would shatter when depth charged. We also had emergency lights that ran directly off the battery and emergency lanterns mounted throughout the boat. We also had a motor-generator set that provided 120 Volts, 400 cycles for some of the electronics equipment. I don't know if boats had that in WWII because electronics was not very advanced then.. I hope this helps you with your research... I only went to boot camp and radio school in San Diego and know nothing about what boats may have been there...
Roland
Posted 2007-01-11 1:43 PM (#1618 - in reply to #1564)
Mess cooking

Posts: 6

Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

Thank you very much. The story was to have involved a Sea Scout, and when I finally got around to running the plot past my literary attorney, he replied, "The Sea Scouts are a division of the Boy Scouts and I'd steer clear of using the organization (by name)...in your book. They are an international empire and they publish a lot of stuff themselves. Come up with another name for the organization." With medicine, 'doctor knows best'. With fiction writing, your literary attorney knows best. I've got to take his advice, like it or not.

My main regret, is that as a former Sea Scout, I wanted the feeling of touching back to those days, and putting together a dynamic adventure, with the real Sea Scouts. Not being able to use the Sea Scout name, cuts the wind out of my sails, so to speak. I mean, how does it sound to you, to read about some bogus, nonexistent group like the Sea Stars, or Sea Lookouts, or Junior Lighthouse Cadets, or some other imaginary group. It lacks the reality-based impact and flavor of a real organization. So I'm gonna have to go through a rethinking of this.

I've got one other book already at the publisher and due out at amazon.com in two months, [Si'Wren of the Patriarchs] by Roland Cheney. I'm also working on an adventure story involving a modern replica of Jules Verne's Nautilus submarine, which is 99% complete. I'm only holding it back while I work up an acceptable bare bones outline for the sequel (about 60 or 75% worked out), so I can dovetail the first one just slightly enough to flow more smoothly into the second. Then that's projected for a coming out, later this year.

But I wanted a Sea Scout adventure so bad. Relive the old days, with a fantasy adventure. It would have been pro-Navy and pro-Sea Scouts. We'll see. I won't totally quit. But there's going to be a delay while I rethink what I want to do, or what is permissible. All I can do with it now is note-gathering.

Thanks again, and happy sailing to all.
jjmcgee
Posted 2007-02-02 5:48 PM (#1963 - in reply to #1590)
Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

My father was an Electricans mate 1st Class and later became an instructor. We lived in San Diego. He was a WWII, Korean and Vietnam Submarine veteran. Although he passed away in 1987, I still have many of his books , diagrams and notes. He actually saved the USS Charr from sinking with all hands off San Diego coast in September 1961. It was in all of the national newspaers and news. Thee was a great story and picture of him in the Sunday "Parade" magazine and our family made the front page of the newspapres for a week. My father was invited to be one of the guests on the TV show "To Tell The Truth" and no one guessed him to be the real "John McGee". I'm lucky to live in Massachusetts where the sub he served on the USS Lionfish ( and was on the orginal "gangplank" crew) and I visti it often with my family. Let me know what information you need.
1oldman
Posted 2007-11-14 11:48 PM (#9209 - in reply to #1564)
Subject: RE: WWII sub story research

This might help you understand the intricacies of a WWII diesel boat:
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm
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