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Old Salt
Posts: 264
Location: Harrison, NJ | Subject: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
During this mornings's Congressional testimony, I noticed ADM. Rogers wearing two "Warfare Badges." One I recognized (Surface Warfare), the other I didn't. A little research revealed that the badge was the "Navy Information Warfare Device."
A little further research revealed that there are *numerous* "Warfare" and "Specialty" "Badges" for both Officer and Enlisted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Navy.
Apparently, there's a "Badge" for just about *any* job/community in the Navy.
I don't usually sound like an Olde Pharte, but WTF! Usta be only a select few communities had "Warfare Badges" - our community, the Aviation community, SEALs (I think), Divers. Later came the Surface community.
Now *everyone* gets to be "special." Again I say W T F!!
Now we're just another "Warfare Community" in a sea of other communities. We usta stand out; now, unfortunately, we "blend." "Oh, you're Qualified in Submarines." That's nice.
Don't get me wrong. I'm *very* proud of my "Fish" and Boomer Pin and what I had to do to *earn* them. But I find the proliferation of specialty badges annoying.
Just my 2 cents.
Edited by Tom Conlon 2017-03-20 6:33 PM
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Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
No surprise when schools award trophies to losers because they participated. Where is our country headed for? |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1890
Location: Patterson, New York | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Tom,
I do not disagree with your point of view. But, dolphins, to me, are quite different than most other badges.
If properly earned, a sailor knows every major and many minor systems on the boat.
We could assist in an emergency in any space on the boat. We could operate or restart many of the sub-systems on the boat. And, we were trained constantly in damage control.
My dolphins make me feel confidence and pride about myself even many decades later.
Like my 7 year old grand son said "You could touch and operate all the levers and buttons on the submarine?"
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3667
Location: Kansas City Missouri | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Nothing new here, this type of behavior has been going on for over 200,000 years. Each generation does it's best to evolve methods of changing things the previous generation thinks are normal or correct. The only difference these days is there's so many more ways for the previous generation to piss and moan about it.
 (We don't need no stinking badges!.jpg)
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 We don't need no stinking badges!.jpg (153KB - 515 downloads)
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
About 8-10 years ago an active duty Boatswain Mate from a bird farm told me that his surface warfare pin was at least as hard earned, if not more so, than my dolphins. He also said, and I cannot collaborate this, that Boatswain was lead rate on surface craft now, replacing navigation, gunnery, signalmen, and a slew of other topside rates. Mark you that this was a few years ago, not last year when the CNO wanted to do away with all rates.
Was this an original version of "alternate facts"?
Steamboat sends |
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Old Salt
Posts: 264
Location: Harrison, NJ | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Tom Courtien rattled a few electrons and said:
I do not disagree with your point of view. But, dolphins, to me, are quite different than most other badges.
If properly earned, a sailor knows every major and many minor systems on the boat.
I say:
I don't disagree with your point. I also treasure my Dolphins and all I had to do to earn them. My post was not meant to diminish our "badge" among all the others. My primary point was that, now rather than being one among a very few, we've become one among very many. To the casual observer, we look the same as any other Sailor.
As I said in my original post, the casual observer sees it as "Oh, you wear (notice it's not "earned") Dolphins. That's nice." Notice the missed point of "earning" something. Or worse, having the casual observer say something to the effect of "Oh, are those Wings."
I fear that we are losing our "status" and becoming "just another piece of 'chest candy'."
Edited by Tom Conlon 2017-03-20 9:30 PM
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Does anyone remember the debacle within the Army about 20 years ago when every soldier was granted permission to wear their own version/color of the "green barais (sp)? I think it ended with nobody wearing them.
I fully agree with every sailor becoming proficient on the ship that he sails, however telling them that they attain the same level of confidence, situational awareness and proficiency required by those who wear the 'phin, is just wrong. There should be some other means to recognize their achievement other than copying our coveted dolphins.
Steamboat sends |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 853
| Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Tom Conlon - 2017-03-20 9:21 PM
I also treasure my Dolphins and all I had to do to earn them.
."
I also treasure my surface warfare along with my dolphins. I EARNED both of them. It took me just as long to qualify ESWS as SS. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1262
Location: Va.Beach,Va. | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Just a continuation of the "Snowflake", "everybody gets a trophy" theory that has pussified not only the military but the whole damn country. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2672
Location: New Jersey | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Steamboat.
When I first got out of boot camp I was assigned to a flat top, CVA 42 and worked in the 3rd division, a deck gang job and was told by one of the bosuns that the rank of Boatswain mate is the highest leading rank on a ship. That was back in 1960.
The only reason that would not be true today is the pasteurization of rates that is going on for whatever reason that makes no sense to me.
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
I agree 100%, MAD DOG. |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 715
Location: Conway, NH | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
These Warfare Pins are not just handed out because Rickey Recruit shows up at a command. Each one has an indepth PQS program and oral board that has to be successfully completed before a candidate receives the pin.
I do admit that in the beginning of the Surface Warfare program there were some real issues. For example we had a SN show up at FT school authorized to wear the pin, except he did not meet the first requirement -- he was not a Petty Officer. Time healed that wound and the program was finally on track and running smoothly.
How many times have the officers stayed in the wardroom while enlisted got a boat underway? I know that it has happened, to show it can be done safely, in the surface community because of the Surface Warfare qualification system. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1796
Location: Albany, GA. | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
If memory serves me correctly, each succeeding generation of potential qualifiers had it easier than the previous generation. I can remember rumors that folks didn't have to qualify whole boat, only their living area and their work area. That was after I had left the boats. The Stewards were prevented from qualifying the whole boat due to the frame 85 security restriction for the Philippine Stewards, yet they earned Dolphins. Then there were the things that were really impossible to do. Especially qualifying some of the PO practical factors as far as weapons were concerned. A lot of those practical factors weren't available on a sub. However, they did seem to get signed off. Seems all things change with time. I knew a D-Day Sargent that got really upset when Congress decided every remaining WWII Veteran that had gotten a Combat Infantry Badge would receive a Bronze Star. His had a "V" device, and he felt it cheapened it. There seems to be a rush to make a Hero out of everyone. From a Father that actually sticks around to raise his kids, to a Police Officer that has only written tickets his whole career. These badges are a sign of that everyone gets something generation. I say go for it if that is what floats your boat. |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9164
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Mid to late 60's Stewards qualified the whole boat on Flasher no matter where from. I also remember hearing that Stewards were given "passes" on lots of stuff to qualify but that didn't happen. We all had to learn the same boat the same way. |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 715
Location: Conway, NH | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Walt ~ When I was aboard Kamehmeha ('75 - '76) the qual system was watch station/living space. But when I went back to Pearl and fast attacks it was definitely whole ship. I was quals Chief on the Hawkbill.
Also Filipinos, regardless of rating, qualified whole ship as they all were US citizens and properly cleared. |
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Old Salt
Posts: 264
Location: Harrison, NJ | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Fortyrod said:
I also treasure my surface warfare along with my dolphins. I EARNED both of them. It took me just as long to qualify ESWS as SS.
And mike652 also commented:
These Warfare Pins are not just handed out because Rickey Recruit shows up at a command. Each one has an indepth PQS program and oral board that has to be successfully completed before a candidate receives the pin
I say:
My problem is not with the qualification process. Yes, I understand that the process is, indeed, rigorous and in depth. My problem is that IMO, after the Navy established the Surface Warfare pin, everyone jumped on the "Hey, I want a pin, too. I want to stand out." bandwagon. The result is the proliferation of Specialty Badges that they have now. If everyone is "special" ( I really dislike that term, but I can't think of an alternative) no one is special. |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 619
| Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Here they ALL are!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Navy#Warfare_and_Other_Qualification
I didn't bother to count them, but I still can't believe it.
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 853
| Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
It seems to me that FBM sailors had to be "special" with there own pin. So I think there are some people living in glass houses |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9164
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
Way I was told to understand it was the Fast Attacks got Ribbons and Medals and The Boomer Boys got the Pins.
FA sailors can take their chest candy to the VFW and American Legion for membership. Boomers took their Patrol Pins since Boomer Ops were and are secret in location. So I was told. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1454
| Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
When they first authorized the FBM pin it didn't exactly get a warm welcome. Maybe just my boat at the time. The rag hast mostly refused to wear it but it was 100% in the Wardroom. It became mandatory for inspections. Yes, you take the Boomer Pin to the VFW but, depending on which VFW, it was "what the hell is that"? Your DD214 should have an entry showing a number of foreign service days/months. Mine does and that's accepted. As for chest candy, all I had after 8 years active was the Good Conduct and National Defense medal/ribbon. Didn't bother me one way or another. I had my Dolphins, Crow, and Rocker which was all I needed to be proud. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 2490
Location: East Coast of Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
I read you Tom. Leaving the USN, I brought with The crow, 3 rockers,dolphins, Good Conduct (3 awards), National Defense Service Medal, The Korean Service Medal and the United Nations Service Medal. And a boatload of pride in it all. This was a run up to accomplishments in civilian life. Law of the jungle required anyone considered for promotion into supervision at the utility I worked for to have a City of Milwaukee First Class Stationary Engineers License. More school work, more exams, interviews but I did it.
Then the horrors of it. The utility decided to go nuke. Then the civilian equivalent of Navy nuke school complete with prototype time and a letter of equivalency of a Senior Reactor Operators license. Back home. Began the on site training. 2 more years of classroom training and on site surveillance of systems being installed and tested. Finally the big event. NRC (AEC at that time) testing/walk through exams, just like qualification on the boat and the light at the end of the tunnel, SRO License #xxx. Now load fuel, take it up and make power. Oh don't forget the annual requal physicals, written exams, interviews, walk throughs for the entire 16 years I held the SRO license.
I guess I can't begrudge anyone their 'chest candy' or service record entries. I did mine and am proud of every bit of it.
The BESS and submarine qualies set the stage for the rest of i. Pride at every step. Of course, there were inspirational and helpful people throughout.
Ron
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Navy "Warfare Badges" WTF
