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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2561
Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
to quote Scarlett, "I'll think about it tomorrow. After all, tomorrow IS another day!'
I thought (foolish me) that I was nearing the end of the unexpected "money pit" expenses following my move just a year ago.
I have been shopping for decent carpet, because the original stuff here (this had been a rental) was cheep (or is that cheap?), and badly stained since renters are notorious for (nah, don't go there, that's discrimination).
Fortunately (just call me Pollyanna), although I thought I had made a decision, I hadn't signed on the dotted line yet.
Well, I was having a little problem with some double vision - two identical ministers standing at the pulpit saying two identical things - etc. So, I made an appointment with my ophthalmologist, who sent me to an optometrist, who prescribed prism lenses. PRISM? I have a mental image of them sticking out in front like the under side of a diamond solitare. Anyway, these things are 'sposed to make your eyes work together again. Not free, though. Even with using my old frames, they top off at $300.00. Well, okay; maybe I can do Christmas on several credit cards. No, as my husband used to say, "We don't charge things that aren't essential to life." I'm sure that includes Christmas gifts.
In the meantime, I've been trying to ignore the fresh oil spots on the garage floor, but my son-in-law convinced me that this wasn't too prudent. Really - I've only noticed them recently.
Drove to my favorite garage, which, incidently is next door to my favorite IHOP. Thought I would enjoy my favorite Rooty Tooty this morning while the mechanics tightened up whatever was loose and letting some oil escape to the concrete floor of the garage. That's what I would have done, if I knew which thingy to tighten up.
Oh, yeah - famous last thoughts. Apparently I need a new (don't really understand this, so bear with me, guys), an Upper Intake; a Lower Intake; an Elbow; Valve Cover Gaskets; R & R Intake; Dye for Engine; Dye for Transmission; R & R Valve Cover Gaskets; a Head Set (now, you guys all know I have one of those "stupid" things - you can see it whenever I post); and R & R Heads. The princely sum for all of this is $1,448.28. Twenty-eight cents? Now, that's just twenty-eight damn cents 'way too much!
On days like this I wish I were a serious drinker. Remember, I told you all once that I knew what men (husbands) were for. They're 'sposed to take care of cars. When I said that, some wise person on the board said that's what mechanics are for.
Husbands are more fun! And they're cheaper. Dammit all, anyway.
I'll think about it tomorrow. I'm sure that a miraculous problem-solving dream will happen tonight.
Sheesh . . .
Cora
Edited by Corabelle 2007-11-09 5:27 PM
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1405
Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US) | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
Well, Cora, you are in luck. I will do your serious drinking for you. It's not often you will find someone who will sacrifice his liver for someone in need, but I'm stepping up to the plate.
Now as to your mechanic....if he ever tells you that you need your headlight halogen fluid replaced, run like hell!
You need to find a local type like Gentry who can tell you what is going on.....sounds to me like the garage you went to saw you coming...... |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2561
Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: Well, gosh, Dave -
I really do appreciate the sacrifice. I talked to my son-in-law last evening and he directed me to another garage. This time it was the local Chevy dealer. I arrived about a half hour before the service department closed.
They put it up on the rack/lift (whatever) and said that there seemed to be coolant leaking in addition to oil. "Sprayed," was the expression he used. He made an appointment for me on Monday morning since they didn't have time to throroughly check it out, then told me there would be a $55.00 diagnostic charge - that's even before we know what has to be done. I walked out, still having the appointment, but will cancel. I've never heard of a charge for diagnosing a car. Is this a normal charge? So much for mentioning my son-in-law!
Guess I'll try the local Tires Plus. They do my oil changes, tire rotations, etc.
Some times solutions to problems do come to me in dreams. Guess I slept too soundly last night.
About that drinking. Is it too late in life to start? I usually can handle one problem at a time, but when they start ganging up on me . . .
I can't even use public transportation. I'm too far from their regular routes, and walking is too difficult for me.
I still think that they (mechanics) should be able just to tighten up something. Seems simple to me.
Oh, well.
Cora |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 602
Location: Visalia, Ca. | Subject: RE: Well, gosh, Dave -
Corabelle - 2007-11-10 7:56 PM
I really do appreciate the sacrifice. I talked to my son-in-law last evening and he directed me to another garage. This time it was the local Chevy dealer. I arrived about a half hour before the service department closed.
They put it up on the rack/lift (whatever) and said that there seemed to be coolant leaking in addition to oil. "Sprayed," was the expression he used. He made an appointment for me on Monday morning since they didn't have time to throroughly check it out, then told me there would be a $55.00 diagnostic charge - that's even before we know what has to be done. I walked out, still having the appointment, but will cancel. I've never heard of a charge for diagnosing a car. Is this a normal charge? So much for mentioning my son-in-law!
Guess I'll try the local Tires Plus. They do my oil changes, tire rotations, etc.
Cora
Yes, it is normal. Dealerships and national chains will charge you for a diagnostic (usually 1/2 or 1 hour labor) if they do more than just listen to you describe the problem. Some independent mechanics will waive the fee for regular customers, but if they put it on the lift or do anythine else to check out the problem, they have put their training and expertise to use in your service, and so are entitled to compensation.
Plus, since you showed up 1/2 hour before closing, if they spent more than 1/2 hour on your vehicle, one or more people may have worked overtime. Since both Federal and most State labor laws require overtime worked to be paid, the dealer has incurred costs on your behalf, and may charge you a reasonable fee to recover those costs.
Your problem may be as simple as a loose bolt that needs to be tightened, or a gasket replaced. But on today's cars and trucks, with all the pollution control equipment, and the compact size of some engines, tightening that bolt or replacing that gasket may be a major undertaking. I seem to recall several cars from the 1980s that required the motor to be unbolted and partially removed from the car in order to change the spark plugs. Not something your typical weekend mechanic is equiped to do.
If you really think that the mechanics who have already looked at your car are trying to "take you for a ride", contact your local Better Business Bureau for reports on those companies, and referrals to reputable mechanics in your area.
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Old Salt
Posts: 489
Location: San Freakcisco CA area | Subject: RE: Well, gosh, Dave -
>>>I seem to recall several cars from the 1980s that required the motor to be unbolted and partially removed from the car in order to change the spark plugs. Not something your typical weekend mechanic is equiped to do.
Why do 76-79 Dodges with a fire-breathing, rip-snorting 440 come to mind? Plug in #8 cylinder was damn near impossible to get at -- but I figured out a way to do it -- pull the front wheel and cut a hole thru the wheel well. Afterwards, poprivet a patch made out of a flattened tincan or whatever is handy.
I have a GMC V-6 P/U that I have to drop the alternator bracket in order to get to #2 and haven't found a quick way around that one. Serpentine belt, autotensioner, so you get that picture ... tuneups today can cost $450 without batting an eyelash, especially if any of the emission components (EGR valve, for example) have to be replaced. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
It has been known for many years that Dealerships and auto repair shops love to try and take advantage of women that bring their cars in to be repaired. 99.9% of Dealerships use a repair guide for time required to do a job.
My wife had a '98 Chevy Blazer that needed a water pump and the tensioner pulley replaced. I was out on the road away from home, so, she took the Blazer to the Dealer where we bought the car. They did the jobs and socked her big time with the bill.
When I got home and looked at the bill I discovered she was charged twice for labor. They told me that that guide tells them what labor costs to charge for each job. So, I asked them, when they did the water pump job they charged labor for that job, they said yes and I agreed with them. Now for the pulley job they charged labor again as if it was another job, they said yes, I disagreed. So, I asked them if they reassembled all of what they disassembled to replace the water pump and then disassembled everything again to do the pulley job. They said no, that they changed out the pulley while doing the water pump. That being the case they over charged for labor.
It was a hassel getting them to see my way, but, we did get a refund.
So, Cora, you need to be careful of what they try and do. Labor costs here in Summerville,SC at a GM Dealership now runs $89/hr and they do charge just to look. Now, you living in a small hic town in South Dakota ought to know everyone and the 2 mechanics in town ought to work out a deal with you. Tell them you'll make them both an apple pie each to check out your car. If I was there I'd do it for that!!! <:~))))   |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
I have a '94 Buick that kept cutting out and sometimes would not start. I took it to 2 bona-fide, certified GM mechanics on seperate occasions who told me to bring it in when the problem occurs again DUH!
I loaned the car to my son for 6 months and he had same problem and tried same solution... certified, bona fide yata-yata. Well between the 2 of us we musta spent $500 in diagnistics but no solutions performed or attempted. Then I happened to be in a independant garage for repairs on a company truck where they had no puters or such. I explained my problemwith my Buick and he told me immediately what the problem was and that he could fix it easily. Well I brought the car in and he replaced a crankshaft sensor for $92.00. I should have gone back to those GM mechanics and shamed them for their ignorance, but I figured that it would not have done any good. Bottom line for them is if the computer don't tell them what is wrong, they can't fix it.
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Old Salt
Posts: 489
Location: San Freakcisco CA area | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
>>>Bottom line for them is if the computer don't tell them what is wrong, they can't fix it.
That's why I have a problem calling them "mechanics" -- parts swappers, yes, but mechanics? Not hardly! Damn few and far between anymore - and it is getting worse. |
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Old Salt
Posts: 338
Location: Oak Island, NC | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
My personal favorite subject, people bashing Automotive Service Technicians. First off SOB, you would be right to not call them "mechanics", but for the wrong reason. Service Techs are MUCH more than mechanics this day, IF properly trained.
People tend to forget that an automobile is a completely different animal than a car of the 60's or 70's. A major change in 1996 occured when OBD II diagnostics became the mandated industry standard for powertrain management.
A service technician now requires months of in-depth training and certification by the ASE before he is typically allowed to service today's automobiles by a reputable dealership OR independent repair shop. The tools he has to maintain are MUCH more expensive than the mechanic of yesteryear had to buy and maintain. In addition to the basic hand tools, there are literally thousands of brand-specific tools he may have to buy if he works in a dealership. It is even worse if he works in an independent shop.
You mention the computer as a diagnostic tool. Ever stop to think what that computer costs? Use the Chrysler StarScan as an example. That unit, which is MANDATED by Chrysler for each dealership who conducts warranty maintenance on their cars, costs $15-20K just to obtain, and then there are the updates. The sheer cost involved in setting up and maintaining a repair facility would boggle the mind.
Someone mentioned "the book", ie the standardized list of typical repairs and how much they should cost. Yes, most dealers and many independent shops use book hours for estimating repairs. They also use that same manual to pay their technicians. Techs get a fixed amount based on the book hours multiplied by their base hourly rate. If they finish the job sooner, they can do more work and thus get paid more. If it takes longer than the book hours say, they lose money. These hours are determined primarily by their diagnosis, so it's imperative that they diagnose it right the first time, and fix it fast. If they don't, they don't last in the business.
Yes, auto repair is expensive, which is why ROUTINE MAINTENANCE is so important. If people would simply change their oil at the correct specified intervals and follow manufacturer's recommendation for maintenance, they would find their ownership experience much less expensive overall.
Of course, you could always try the repairs yourself, in which I assure you that you will find out just how expensive car repairs can be.
One more thing.. When looking for a shop to perform your maintenance, always look for a shop that utilizes ASE certified technicians. They are trained and tested before they get to wear that patch.
Just my .02
Chuck
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2561
Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
I have always had my oil changed every three months or 3,000 miles, which ever comes first. Since I don't venture far from home, it's usually every three months.
Cora |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
When ASE started this computerized data the days of shade tree mechanics started to disappear. Detroit found a new way to get customers back to their shops at the dealer. |
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Old Salt
Posts: 338
Location: Oak Island, NC | Subject: RE: I don't usually do this type of post, but,
ASE didn't start computerized data, the government (in an indirect way) did.
Emissions controls mandated for automobiles mandated much more precise measurement and delivery of fuel to engines to produce adequate performance and fuel economy while maintaining as low emissions as possible. Computers allow for precise monitoring of such parameters as air flow into the engine, throttle position, oxygen content in the exhaust, COx and NOx emissions, air intake temperature, and many others. This data is processed and is used to control fuel injector open time, known as "pulse width."
Consider this.. Chevrolet's most powerful (advertised) engine of the "muscle car" era was the LS-6 454. with an advertised 450 HP, 550 lb-ft of torque, and approximately 8-10 mpg, less if driven as intended. In 2007, the Z06 Corvette's LS-7 produces 505 HP, 470 lb-ft of torque (small block vs. big block), and delivers 16 mpg city, 26 highway (also less if you drive it as intended). Heck, I was at the South Florida International Auto Show last night and saw a Chevy Cobalt with a turbocharged 2.0 Liter (121 cubic inches), producing 260 HP!
We all like to wax nostalgic about yesterday's cars, and while they were great in their time and classics today, cars of today are without a doubt the best ever produced.
Chuck
Edited by rjs2005 2007-11-13 6:15 AM
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I don't usually do this type of post, but,
