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Master and Commander
Posts: 1431
| Subject: Respecting the other side in election years
I firmly believe that it is our obligation to respect the opinions of our political opponents no matter how wrong the mjght be  |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1324
Location: Oxnard, CA | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
Former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura was on a television program last night. I only caught a little of it, but he was promoting something that should have been around for a long time.
In all elections, on all ballots for all offices there should be a space to vote for NONE OF THE ABOVE!
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
NONE OF THE ABOVE. I could go for that. Then it would be up to THE PEOPLE to come up with another slate of candidates, WITHOUT MEDIA INVOLVEMENT!
Steamboat sends |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
I would give anything for a return to the era where difference in political position wasn't used as an ecuse to impune someones patriotism, love of country and worth as an American. Totalitarian regimes ALWAYS begin when a group of people begin to think they have an exclusive franchise on TRUTH. Faschist and National Socialist paties thrived on national divisiveness and pitting good men with different outlooks, against each other. Winston Churchill admonished the world to beware of a country that depends on mercinaries and hired armies when its' citizenry fails to answer their nations call. This is the signature trait of national degeneracy and national takeover by forces loyal to charismatic individuals and NOT the nation that pays for the hirelings. We need to become one...to unify...to teach patriotic obligation once more to our youth. RCK's post above may very well be the most timely and important message that has appeared here in a long time. Political difference is the healthiest of things in a true democracy. We learn through listening to competitive dialog...weighing ideas...looking for merit in differing points of veiw. Nobody has a lock on right and truth....Political parties are not religions...They are simply platforms for the presentation of ideas on the management and charting of the course of governance. They do not offer a path to salvation...a life of true belief...biased media commentators are not vested with credentials to deliver gospel from their cyber pulpits...They are, when all the horse manure is boiled out of their rhetoric...simple citizens whose empowerment is derived from the same document all citizens are covered by, the United States Constitution. No matter what seems expedient at the moment the dimunition of the Constitution diminishes us ALL...Once a right or civil liberty is lost, it is rarely recaptured. The greatness of this nation is derived from the magnificence of the document by which we are governed...men, very good men have laid down their lives for the protection and perpetuation of the ideals expressed in and the rights enumerated in that superbly crafted code of governance. RCK found the common denominator...he masterfully expressed what should be patently obvious to decent men...RESPECT OF OUR POLITICAL OPPONENTS...If somehow we could adopt that...if we could find a way to return to a being a people who excercise reciprocal respect...We could recapture a lot of the GREATNESS we once had and have squandered in the eyes of the world, by back biting, trivial bickering, political postering and engaging in media mud wrestling that makes us appear less than childish in the eyes of foriegn observers who want desperately to be our allies. RESPECT...mutually expressed sincere respect for difference of opinion....RCK has dug up the only true diamond in the kitty litter box...THANKS...DEX |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2561
Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: Citizenry answering the nation's call -
Someone mentioned on this board several years ago that, instead of sending our young men and women to die for our country, we should send those with the least to lose - us - the old farts. We're patriotic; we can get "mad as hell;" and we have less years to sacrifice. Plus we have the experience to know which wars are wars worth fighting.
I agree with whoever first said this. How about it, guys? Who once said that it's the old men who send the young men to die? Those who decree war should put their money where their mouths are.
Cora
Edited by Corabelle 2008-04-03 9:39 PM
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 811
Location: NW Connecticut | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
dex armstrong - 2008-04-03 10:20 PM
I would give anything for a return to the era where difference in political position wasn't used as an ecuse to impune someones patriotism, love of country and worth as an American. Totalitarian regimes ALWAYS begin when a group of people begin to think they have an exclusive franchise on TRUTH. Faschist and National Socialist paties thrived on national divisiveness and pitting good men with different outlooks, against each other. Winston Churchill admonished the world to beware of a country that depends on mercinaries and hired armies when its' citizenry fails to answer their nations call. This is the signature trait of national degeneracy and national takeover by forces loyal to charismatic individuals and NOT the nation that pays for the hirelings. We need to become one...to unify...to teach patriotic obligation once more to our youth. RCK's post above may very well be the most timely and important message that has appeared here in a long time. Political difference is the healthiest of things in a true democracy. We learn through listening to competitive dialog...weighing ideas...looking for merit in differing points of veiw. Nobody has a lock on right and truth....Political parties are not religions...They are simply platforms for the presentation of ideas on the management and charting of the course of governance. They do not offer a path to salvation...a life of true belief...biased media commentators are not vested with credentials to deliver gospel from their cyber pulpits...They are, when all the horse manure is boiled out of their rhetoric...simple citizens whose empowerment is derived from the same document all citizens are covered by, the United States Constitution. No matter what seems expedient at the moment the dimunition of the Constitution diminishes us ALL...Once a right or civil liberty is lost, it is rarely recaptured. The greatness of this nation is derived from the magnificence of the document by which we are governed...men, very good men have laid down their lives for the protection and perpetuation of the ideals expressed in and the rights enumerated in that superbly crafted code of governance. RCK found the common denominator...he masterfully expressed what should be patently obvious to decent men...RESPECT OF OUR POLITICAL OPPONENTS...If somehow we could adopt that...if we could find a way to return to a being a people who excercise reciprocal respect...We could recapture a lot of the GREATNESS we once had and have squandered in the eyes of the world, by back biting, trivial bickering, political postering and engaging in media mud wrestling that makes us appear less than childish in the eyes of foriegn observers who want desperately to be our allies. RESPECT...mutually expressed sincere respect for difference of opinion....RCK has dug up the only true diamond in the kitty litter box...THANKS...DEX
When was that? when was one American's opinion judged more important or correct just because the other American disagreed.. Thank Goddness we can still do this in the good ol USA. Respect for difference of opinion is earned just like all differences in life.. If someone is a Racist, Anti Semite or Nazis don't expect me to respect his or her opinion.. We Americans should not march lock step to one drummer. Politics are clashes of opinions and idologies..it start Wars ends wars and ends and starts empires and wonderful and great Nations.
Our founding fathers head butted and trash talked their way with each other way back then. Tared and feathered each other hell some Pollys even "Duelled to The Death" in so called gentlemanly dis agreements.. Good Ol Mother England did not think we respected their opinions did they.. Our Nation had a Civil War as a result of "Politics" .. The opinions on both sides of the aisle were in no way civil or shared respect.. But the fate of our Nation and a Race of people rode on the backs of the noble Union that held the course of our founding fathers..in the pursuit of liberty for all. This resulted in the fact that the Nation's interest is more important than any one State's interests and we have never been stronger as a nation as a result. Today's politics are tame by yesteryear standards. The PC Media and ever so polite agendas of Cult Personality boldly telling lies and separating themselves from dark pasts and unsavory friends and religious mentors would never have been let to go 20 years ago without being challenged by the public like they are today.. The media assures the politicians of this vail of protection and open favortism even as going so far as to excuse it or make stuff up or support lies about one or the other party.
No, I long for a return to the day when a candidate is publiclly challenged for their lies and decieptions and their feet held to the fire for it. WE have been TRAINED and Conditioned to accept crap in lew of honesty and hard work from our pollys.. All due respects DEX your post is a fine example of that ignorance of what we American voters have become.Too Many of us will say please Don't tell me it's raining Sir or Madam just keep pissing on my leg I love the warm feeling it's giving me. This is what Americans want today.. Any Polly telling facts and truths is hacked off at the knees by the "Other Side"..In a nicer and far more PC way than it was done during the so called good old days when a Woman was a 2nd rate citizen and Blacks were kept under the heel. Now the pollys impress them with promise of gold under their parties rainbow... For sure the pollys we have today would have been eaten alive by us 20 or 30 years ago if caught bold face in a lie or illigal behavior.. Today they are labeled as being Human.. Their drug use and bed hopping as well as cheating and lieing ways are accepted standards for these pollys today.. It's our fault.
I think the road to being POTUS is a position that demands political fighting and truth in advertising..the standards for this job are already established so why do we not enforce them? We should accept nothing less but we do.. So unfortunitly I too just deal with it as the Good Doc would suggest and look for the Devil we know .
Na, I'd gladly go back to the back stabing, nosebreaking politics of the past.. The stronger and just will most usually survive,, should we settle for anything less? |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
Smiley, Nobody said that you can't have differences of opinion...that you can't passionately argue your postion. You missed the point completely. YOU CAN HAVE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION...SUPPORT THOSE POSITIONS PASSIONATELY (here's what you obviously failed to grasp) BUT, YOU DON"T HAVE TO DISCREDIT THE PERSION WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU WITH BY CALLING HIS WORTH, HIS PATRIOTISM, HIS RELIGIOUS VALUES, HIS FAMILY VALUES or PERSONAL MORALITY INTO QUESTION. Unless I completley missed the point of the original post, that's what RCK so eloquently suggested. Years back I disagreed with everything...damn near everything Associate Justice William O. Douglas stood for, cast his Supreme Court votes for and wrote opinions on. I was an anti-socialist hotblood and William O. Douglas had horns and a tail in the world I lived in. At a dinner at Hogates, I found myself seated at the headtable next to Bill and Cathy. The Justice was the featured speaker...To me, then in my late 20's the age difference between Bill Douglas and Cathy made him one step above a child molester...In the course of three hours and later over drinks at the bar, I came to deeply respect the sincerity of the man and his all consuming passion for his interpretation of he saw as the Constitutional rights provided those expousing unpopular views and opinions. I came to understand and appreciate the unique relationship he and Cathy shared. There was a recognizable electricity in each, the other fed on....I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was, but it was obviously there. I didn't leave a convert...but I did leave with a deep respect for the man and a desire to read his writings...which I did. We need men like Adlai Stevenson, Tip O'neil, Hubert Humphrey and the like..to provide what the Brits call,"The Loyal Opposition"...the counterweight necessary to provide contrasting thought and position. A nation to use Smiley's term that walks in lockstep to a singular majority blessed orthodoxy...becomes a cookie cutter society, a massive "go along, to get along" collection of mindless handpuppets subject to manipulation by the few high priests of the orthodoxy by bieng cast beyond the circle of the chosen and branded a traitor. This nation used to be a nation of maverick non-conformist, free thinkers who weren't afraid of contrasting ideas...reading the views of the popularly unacceptable. I had a wonderful teacher who had me read the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. He said,"Bob, 90% of the men you will serve shoulder to shoulder with in the Armed Service had no idea what in the hell world communist world domination was when they fought in Korea. The North Koreans used our ignorance as the basis for their re-education, i.e. brainwashing of our POW's. Ignorance of what your enemy is fighting for, puts you at a disadvantage when arguing the superiority of your nation's position. Our troops in WWII, knew exactly what they were fighting for and against...because our military leaders explained the contrasts in the systems." To disagree without being nasty...without name calling...branding those you disagree with as some kind of duplicitous inferior unpatriotic sonuvabitches....is practicing the American Way of Life as the framers intended it. Any man who accepts the roadmap to national salvation others mapped out for him to accept unquestionally, is a certifiable fool. Look at RCK's post title...it is a very suscinct statement of decency and the way good men and women conduct themselves. Thanks DEX |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 811
Location: NW Connecticut | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
You're Right Dex.. You and I have had our food fights in the past and you know I love you... Not in a manley don't ask don't tell way, but in a way many of us shipmates understand. If they have to ask why they wouldn't understand. .. I truely respect you and I think you know that. Anyway before we both move to Cape Cod and join in civil union I ask.. don't you ever get tired up to your ears with all the BS we get feed from all sides of the political spectrum? So many people swallow this crap and then go out and try to preach it.. They get a lot of bites and land a lot of suckers and they keep using the same bait.. Let one of us say bulls--t and look for the marrow of their arguement and all we get in return is.. "what's wrong with you"? everyone else knows it's true.. you must be a Democrate or a Republican whatever..Hell my Union is supporting pro illegal immigration candidates.. now I ask, what's the biggest threat to organized labor???? yup... Cheap and plentiful Illegals willing to do our jobs. That's great for them and the fat cats hiring them but we get screwed... WTF?.. It don't take a kindergarten education to figure that one out...Worse yet my freaken dues are paying these idiots salarys..Now whose the fool Walt??
Well it's not the politics that gets me going it's how they assume we all agree with them. Somehow they hold all the answers to whats wrong with us.. duh.. they always seem to forget who they are supposed to be working for.
I wish I really didn't care, but like religion it's with us daily we can't ignore it no matter how we try. I know we can't do anything about it because it was and always will be the fat cats in politics vs the worker bees keeping them in honey. I'm just tired of apoligising for their incompatence and political incontentence.. Every day we are reminded of the idiots we have so willingly put in charge of the hive...So it comes down to the Devil or the deep blue sea.. Last several times the Devil has been winning!
I'm so happy Lent is over... I need something a little stronger than this coffee I'm nurseing.. as well as a download of a good spell checker.. Heck at least I know where the ENTER key is
Edited by Smiley 2008-04-04 12:39 PM
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
Smiley, I agree....Like you,I'm not interested in taking soapy showers with you or selecting bridesmaids...and I too respect you. You're a lot like me in that you enjoy knocking the bark off trees with your antlers, pissing against the tide and sleeping in caves with wolves. (By the way, love your logo....Arrrg.). I too am frustrated as hell at the available choices...It's a lot like having to go to the glue factory slaughter house and pick a Kentucky Derby winner.) What happened to all the statesmen?) It appears that with all the media rooting through everyone's background looking for screwball ministers (and that jaybird that presides over Obamas congregation is indeed a number of bricks short of a load.)...It seems like with all the tests and gauntlets to be run...butts required to be kissed...rings to be kissed....endorsements required....special hombres to be wooed....individualism gets homogenized to the point that all you get is a multiple choice collection of fanny kissers.. ...I'm not interested in the fact some rotten sonuvabitch contributed $5000 to somebody's campaign....Hell, some worthless bastard probably bought Grotten Base raffle tickets...who knows and better yet, why should we give a damn?....I can't see where it would be anything but a colossal waste of time to administer a "political contributors purity" test.)...I don't think a candidate's wife should have to make her last PAP smear, bake sale contributions and list of her personal magazine subscriptions public....) I don't think it is anyones business that you got drunk as an E-3 and paid a fine for public urination on the Cathedral steps in Barcelona...What in the hell does something you did in the "wild oats sewing" stage of your earthly existence have to do, with mature governance and proper excercise of the Presidential decision making processes? I like folks with humility and who admit to having human frailties...God knows honesty and lying like hell, are no impediments to political popularity of late. We have even coined a new term for bulls**t lamination and turning the stuff you shovel off the floor in the gorilla cage into starduswt...it's done by SPIN DOCTORS...specialists in thowing horsecrap curveballs. Where did we start accepting lying bastards as viable politicians? And don't get me wrong, both parties are marketing lying bastards and coniving sonuvabitches.....selling snake-oil is not a genderspecific occupation or racially confined to a specific ethnic or political point of view. What I fear is that as the population becomes increasingly disenchanted, angry and frustrated, a very charismatic strongman will emerge to claim what he refers to as necessary dictatorial powers to clean out the barn. His methodology will require the (quote) suspension of Constitutionally mandated civil liberties and guarenteed rights....The Bill of Rights will be gutted for expediently addressing the things appearing to be required to get the national locomotive back on the tracks. My other fear is that all the power conferred on this Homeland Security outfit will morph into some kind of ruthless secret police midnight door busting outfit and Guantanamo will become a fast growing national franchise...The Starbucks of waterboarding and testicle crushing. U.S. citizens will fall into the rendition trick bag and end up getting weedwhacker colonostopies in a dark warehouse in Rumania. We need some kind of 21st century Joan of Arc to turn up, make us recognize what a truly wonderful people we are and lead us out of the septic tank out into the sunshine once again and hand the Americans back their white hats and worldwide reputation. Smiley, this exchange has really accomplished what I think RCK really intended....It promoted civil dialog where no specific ideology, partisan political fire bombs got tossed....nobody has been condemed to be burned at the stake...tarred and feathered....or sent to Jordan for enhanced interrogation involving high voltage memory improvement....After reading your post, it became evident that you and I will not be picking out silverware patterns, matching linnen and honeymoon sleep wear....But, dammit, I recognize you as a man with something to be said and civilized dialog is the best and most presuasive way to present views and change the perspective from which positions are viewed. Thanks for the respectful way you addressed your post. Your shipmate DEX |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 602
Location: Visalia, Ca. | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
dex armstrong - 2008-04-04 6:57 AM
To disagree without being nasty...without name calling...branding those you disagree with as some kind of duplicitous inferior unpatriotic sonuvabitches....is practicing the American Way of Life as the framers intended it.
But what if the person (Candidate) with whom you disagree IS a duplicitous, unpatriotic, sonuvabitchen, perjuring thief who should have been indicted, tried, and convicted for bank fraud, and now be serving time in a federal prison instead of drawing a federal salary/pension? 
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Respecting the other side in election years
If that is as evident to his constituents and the justice system doesn't take care of the bastard, then in a democracy the system should be self cleansing unless this nation has been snorkeling in the septic tank so damn long that our scuba mask lenses have become so crap clouded that we no longer find virtue in clean politics and patriotism in purging those who depreciate our national ideals and reputation in the eyes of other nations. A nation that compromises its' core principals and dimiinishes it's obvious moral standards, would be a nation no longer deserving of the respect and emulation of otrher nations. So, given your question....Nothing is gained by name calling except the appearance of immaturity....The sonuvabitch described belongs in jail,out of office or taken care of by whatever Constitutional standard such persons are judged. There's nothing more injurious to a persons' reputation as reserving a room in a orange jumpsuit boarding facility...well that no true, it didn't seem to put a dent in Martha Stewart's popularity. Law breaking has become an in vogue exprience...steroid chomping ballplayers, rooster fighting fans....canine killing spectacles, celebrity DUI....stall partition foot tapping politicians....propositioning Senate pages....getting hummers in the Oval Office....getting a Presidential wink job if you're a convicted felony convicted purgerer....ducking imaginary sniper fire while risking your life in Kosovo....staying seated while Rev, Wright trashes your country......There are tails custom made for everybody's donkey in the race. Our only hope is that a miracle will happen and FDR will have a second coming and sraighten this cesspool out like he did the last time.....I don't want to be in Iraq for a hundred years or declare war on anyone, anywhere we don't have the guts to drop a bomb on. If we had dropped a zillion megaton egg on Osama thirty minutes after the second plane hit the twin towers...It would have sent a wonderfully clear message to the terrorists....It would have made potential insurgent recruits rethink their future...It would have gotten rid of the entire Al Queda general staff...created a two hundred mile radius of smoking camel parts, burnt goats and glow in the dark dung beetles....It would have been a great first step in mideast urban renewal...and the entire world would have recognized how seriously we treated folks who flew planes into occupied buildings. WE DO HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.....The damn things don't do you any good if you simply haul them around in the ocean like a deep waqter UPS truck...You've got to mass destruct something every now and then to get the world's attention. You drop a Nagasaki size egg on the Kobba Stone...one just like it on the Temple on the Mount...then contact Al Jeezera and say,"You guys blew up our Twin Towers and Pentagon...We got your Kobba Stone and Temple on the Mount...You guys ready to call it even and get back to 34 cent a gallon gas?" Vote out the namby pamby twinkled toes spin masters and get some guy in there who will administer ariel delivered pain at a level these rug praying bastards fully understand. We've got to stop fighting wars based on seperating fly crap from the pepper and get back to the concept of beating the enemy to his knees and humiliating him into total and absolute submission. The "willing to die for the Emperor" Japs got religion and saw the light when two of their major cities evaporated in a momentary flash of fire...When they surrendered because THEY KNEW DAMN WELL IF THEY DIDN'T BEHAVE, WE WOULD RETURN AND REDUCE THEIR HOME ISLAND TO A PILE OF ASHES AND TERMINATE THEIR NATIONAL EXISTENCE....We could easily put the same idea in the minds of every sonuvabitch in the MidEaast. We also need to rent U-Haul trailors and the day after the General Election round up all the folks that voted for Ralph Nader, turn em over to NASA to colonize the planet Pluto with. Hey, It was a slow day...we need to increase our gastric juice activity level...and exchange a few of our "You're a complete jerk" brickbats.DEX |
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Respecting the other side in election years
