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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 590
Location: Colton, NY | Subject: File under: Well DUH !
Source
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12314
Madrid, Apr 11, 2008 / 03:21 pm (CNA).- The Spanish magazine Huellas has published an interview
with Sylvie Menard, one of the most renowned oncologists in Europe who for many years was a
supporter of euthanasia but several months ago changed her views after she was diagnosed with
bone cancer.
Menard told the magazine that she always believed that each person should decide his own fate,
but ‘when I became ill, I changed my position radically.”
“When you get sick, death ceases to be something virtual and becomes something that is with you
every day,” she said. “So you say to yourself: ‘I am going to do everything possible to live as long
as possible.”
Menard, who is married and has one son, acknowledged, “Today anything that means a new chance
at life is valuable to me.”
Despite her illness, she continues as head of the Experimental Oncology Department at the
Institute of Cancer in Milan. She said that those who promote euthanasia do so for two reasons:
they don’t want to suffer and they don’t want to lose self-sufficiency, thus becoming a burden for
others.
She agreed that people who are ill “do not want to experience pain” and that “they have a right to
alleviate it”. She also emphasized that “pain therapy has advanced considerably in recent years.”
“Even if you do not have complete use of your faculties and you cannot get up because you are
confined to bed, but you still have the affection of your family members, in my opinion, even in
those conditions, it’s worth it to keep living,” she said. |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
I can see both sides of this but at this time I still believe that there can come a point when there is no quality of life and the outlook for recovery is almost zero to none. The medical bills will end up bankrupting the family and will place enormous psychological stresses on the family. At that point it should be my choice and not anyones else's as to when I go. I have a do not recessitate or use extreme measures in my living will and if the situation can't be guaranteed of a quality of life. After all, it is my life and no one else's. If I'm a vegetable don't keep me around because someone thinks it is right. I, also realize that I could change my mind as this lady did come the time.
I visited a shipmate at Madigan Army Hospital near Tacoma a few years ago. He was suffering from cancer and looked terrible and was very sick. The next day he told his wife to allow him to go. The life support was turned off, he took a few more breathes and then went on his last patrol. Sad, yes, but it was his choice. All choices had been played, all treatments had been used and is life was being kept going by a machine and not his own body. His skin hurt to be touched, he was fed though a tube and his skin was almost all black and blue blotches. I salute his courage and hope I can be as strong if I am in the in the same situation. John Ravenkamp STSCS (SS), Hand Salute!!! Two.
It has to be the persons choice if they want it, not some doctors or family members for selfish or professional reasons.
Very thought provoking this early in the morning.
Ric
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
Ric, I agree 100%. I realize there are millions of circumstances that can be faced and each case is an individual one. One of the greatest things you can do for your family is to lift this burden off of their shoulders when the time comes and it will come whether you're ready or not. Kind of like the game of tag-- ready or not here it comes-- ain't none of us getting out of here alive.  |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 590
Location: Colton, NY | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
OK... my thread title (DUH) was obviously a poor choice on my part.
I believe that each human has full and absolute control over his life. In fact my proxy is on file at my
local hospital and a copy is readily available for my next of kin to make a decision in the event I am
unable to.
What I was reacting to was the 180 done by Ms Meanrd.
My reading of her article was that prior to her unfortunate illness she appeared to see the
euthanasia decision - for a terminal patient - as more of an academic exercise. But fate stepped in
and brought it all back to reality in a terrible and personal way.
Many of us, I suspect, have known someone who was in such irreversible straits with intolerable
pain that could not be relieved. And all the super skills of the medical people was doing more to
bankrupt the survivors than providing any improvement of quality of life. In short... when that
happens it does throw everything into a place that does not fit neatly into either an easy go or no-
go decision.
Personally, I am fairly certain that I would willingly endure a lot of pain just to be with my wife and
kids just one more day - or to see another sunrise over my fields. But for how long? Who can say?
Obviously there is no way to know until the time comes.
A few years ago my neighbor and good friend - a WWII vet - after surviving gut cancer and enduring
a bad breathing problem, fell while on a trip to San Diego. He had broken his neck and was trussed
up and in great pain. Prognoses was zilch so he told his wife to just let him go. She did. His ashes
were brought back and spread over one of his favorite places on his old farm where they had built
their retirement home.
Bill Rhiel's Last Gig
http://www.sid-hill.com/write/bill-r.htm
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1405
Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US) | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
yeah...the fine point here is that you have someone who would proscribe actions for everyone else as long as the proponent is immune from the proscription...I have other terms for them, but probably the nicest I could come up with is hypocrites.....And those sort of people unfortunately populate way too many offices in our government from federal all the way down to the local level.....they're going to tell you how YOU have to live......based on their superior wisdom....... Bah Humbug....let her suffer the proscription she proffered for others...............
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Old Salt
Posts: 489
Location: San Freakcisco CA area | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
I don't know whether the "old indian proverb" was, in fact, ever uttered by an old indian; in any event, the thought comes clear to me anyway -- "Don't judge another man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins." So I can only speak for myself.
I have a "living will" on file with the local hospital and in the hands of my wife and kids as well. Having been DOA with a massive heart attack just a little over 6 years ago, I can still hear the ER physician saying "he is in full arrest."
I also heard the cardiologist tell my wife that I had less than 25% chance of surviving as I was being carted off to the cath lab. She had every right (and even perhaps responsibility) to tell him not to make the trip because of that living will. Obviously, as I sit here today, the course of action and outcome are obvious, I'm typing away on my keyboard.
BTW - in a subsequent conversation with my cardioligist, I recounted all I heard that night and he told me that my experience is common - the human brain, memory, and some sensors continue to function for many minutes after one is clinically dead. He also verified my recollections as being absolutely accurate - I did hear and remember many details for quite a while before he found the blockage and opened it up. I even remember getting thumped in the chest after the blockage was opened - that remained a damn tender spot for almost a year, I was hit so hard.
Now, having acknowledged that, my wife and I have had a couple of serious discussions since that fateful night. I absolutely embrace the decision that I don't want to "live" as a vegetable with no quality of life and no hope of recovery - simply burning off whatever assets I may have left and being a burden on whomever winds up changing my diapers and refilling my feeding tubes. No way. Just pull the plug. There may be miracles out there in the universe, but I doubt that there are any more with my name on them. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2561
Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
Bill -
We were taught in nursing school that the last sense to leave is hearing. As a consequence, we were also taught to be cautious about what we say in circumstances like yours.
Miracles aren't handed out just one to a customer. I have seen more than that in my own life time. And, sometimes, when one wishes hardest for them, they don't appear.
Glad for your miracle!
Cpra |
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Old Salt
Posts: 461
Location: Medina, OH | Subject: RE: File under: Well DUH !
And as we've often mentioned in sub forums, don't put the burden on family for writing your obit. And include beyond submarine serivice, the names of boats, miliary-related organizations My obit, photo, burial and memorial service details done, in home safe. |
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File under: Well DUH !
