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RCK |
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| Master and Commander Posts: 1431 | Subject: Chinese Subs Interesting spot on the news about a secret shipyard that is busy making nuclear subs on the coast. We have known about it for 3 or 4 years. I wonder what the U.S. will do when China attacks Formosa? | ||
| Thomas Courtien |
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| Master and Commander Posts: 1892 Location: Patterson, New York | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs Chinese nuclear submarine base By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent Last updated: 5:28 PM BST 02/05/2008 China has secretly built a major underground nuclear submarine base that could threaten Asian countries and challenge American power in the region, it can be disclosed. Satellite imagery, passed to The Daily Telegraph, shows that a substantial harbour has been built which could house a score of nuclear ballistic missile submarines and a host of aircraft carriers. In what will be a significant challenge to US Navy dominance and to countries ringing the South China Sea, one photograph shows China’s latest 094 nuclear submarine at the base just a few hundred miles from its neighbours. Other images show numerous warships moored to long jettys and a network of underground tunnels at the Sanya base on the southern tip of Hainan island. Of even greater concern to the Pentagon are massive tunnel entrances, estimated to be 60ft high, built into hillsides around the base. Sources fear they could lead to caverns capable of hiding up to 20 nuclear submarines from spy satellites. The US Department of Defence has estimated that China will have five 094 nuclear submarines operational by 2010 with each capable of carrying 12 JL-2 nuclear missiles. The images were obtained by Janes Intelligence Review after the periodical was given access to imagery from the commercial satellite company DigitalGlobe. Analysts for the respected military magazine suggest that the base could be used for "expeditionary as well as defensive operations" and would allow the submarines to "break out to launch locations closer to the US". It would now be "difficult to ignore" that China was building a major naval base where it could house its nuclear forces and increase it "strategic capability considerably further afield". The development so close to the sea lanes vital to Asian economies "can only cause concern far beyond these straits". Military analysts believe that China’s substantial build up of its forces is gaining pace put has remained hidden from the world in the build-up to the Olympics. China has diverted much of its resources from the huge Peoples Liberation Army to the navy, air force and missile development. An old Russian aircraft carrier, bought by Beijing for "leisure activities" has been picked over by naval architects who hope to "reverse engineer" the ship. Within the next five to 10 years the People's Liberation Navy is expected to build up to six carriers which will also coincide with the Royal Navy’s construction of two major carriers. The location of the base off Hainan will also give the submarines access to very deep water exceeding 5,000 metres within a few miles, making them even harder to detect. Britain’s Trident submarines have to remain on the surface when they leave Faslane in north east Scotland and cannot dive to depth until outside the Irish Sea. While it has been known that China might be developing an underground base at Sanya, the pictures provide the first proof of the base’s existence and the rapid progress made. Two 950 metre piers and three smaller ones would be enough to accommodate two carrier strike groups or amphibious assault ships. Christian Le Miere, editor for Jane's Intelligence Review, said the complex underlined Beijing’s plan “to assert tighter control over this region". "This is a challenge to any hegemonic power, particularly the US which still remains dominant in the region." So far China has offered no public explanation for its building at Sanya. | ||
| Donald L. Johnson |
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Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 602 Location: Visalia, Ca. | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs RCK - 2008-05-02 5:25 PM Interesting spot on the news about a secret shipyard that is busy making nuclear subs on the coast. We have known about it for 3 or 4 years. I wonder what the U.S. will do when China attacks Formosa? While we claim not to be actively targeting any particular adversary with our ballistic missiles, it would not surprise me if our Strategic Command has generated targeting data for this lovely Chinese facility, for both strategic and tactical missiles. I hope that the Chinese would not be so foolish as to attack Taiwan, but if they do, that our President would consider that an act of war, and respond with all the might of the Pacific Fleet. | ||
| Flapper |
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Master and Commander Posts: 1107 Location: Tucson AZ | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs Donald L. Johnson - 2008-05-03 12:09 AM RCK - 2008-05-02 5:25 PM [ SNIP] I hope that the Chinese would not be so foolish as to attack Taiwan, but if they do, that our President would consider that an act of war, and respond with all the might of the Pacific Fleet. That really depends on who is in office, doesn't it? If I said anything more detailed, this would be relegated to the politcal pig pen. Personally, I think China could get away with almost whatever they wanted to do, save attacking us directly ... and the US response would be whining and handwringing. | ||
| Donald L. Johnson |
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Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 602 Location: Visalia, Ca. | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs Flapper - 2008-05-02 9:22 PM Donald L. Johnson - 2008-05-03 12:09 AM RCK - 2008-05-02 5:25 PM [ SNIP] I hope that the Chinese would not be so foolish as to attack Taiwan, but if they do, that our President would consider that an act of war, and respond with all the might of the Pacific Fleet. That really depends on who is in office, doesn't it? If I said anything more detailed, this would be relegated to the politcal pig pen. Personally, I think China could get away with almost whatever they wanted to do, save attacking us directly ... and the US response would be whining and handwringing. Yes, that would depend on who the Commander in Chief is, and it is something to consider when it comes time to vote in November. But, whomever is elected this fall, I hope they don't let the Chinese run roughshod over their neighbors, or reclaim Taiwan by force of arms. Similar appeasement of the Japanese Empire helped lead to WWII. The Chinese have not forgotten the Rape of Nanking and other Japanese attrocities, nor the US suport of Chaing Kai-Sheck and the Nationalists. We dare not elect an isolationist, or, God Forbid, an American Neville Chamberlin. | ||
| dex armstrong |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 3202 Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs It is my understanding that once we crawled under the covers with our new Chinese sweethearts, we abrogated our mutual defense treaties with Tiawan...In other words we sold them down the Yangzee. Before you get too hasty about jumping on the Chinese. (A) Their ground forces to include trained reserve forces are about six million...They are the down line folks who pushed US and UN forces out of North Korea back during the days when they were a backward, borrowed technology primarily ground force. (B) That was before they took over America's role as the world's industrial goods supplier.(C) If China called in our debt, they could foreclose on Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New Mexico and sell them to Ceasar Chavez....If they cut us off from imported chink trade goods...the only tools we would have would be tweezers and toenail clippers....Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot and Toys R Us would be operating out .of Winnebago's pulled around by goats....Our kids would have no toys....we would be assembling what little stuff we still produce with whittled sticks and going around nekkit....And what would happen to the new American institution...the Dollar Store? Watch out, if they turn out submarines like they turn out everythinhg else, they'll have five to ten thousand of them by next March and Nancy Pelosi will still be holding hearings on the "impending Chinese threat"......and all of our Seven-Elevens will become Chinese ordinance depots..."Pardon Meeztur, You wantta Slurpee or one'a reely nice AK-47?" With the way we're turning our nation over to China...like borrowing politically motivated vote buying tax rebate money to gladhand out...We're rapidly becoming a Chinese colony. "The term GLOBALIZATION" means turning over formerly owned and run American businesses to overseas based consortiums who give a damn about one thing..corporate profit...Don't kid yourself, they have no more national obligation...don't pay taxes on the money they earn from the US taxpayer. Why do you think Cheney's HALIBURTON moved its' corporate headquarters to the Mid East?....It doesn't pay taxes on the American money it earns from the taxpaying public. 20 to 30 Billion or more. My advice, learn to eat with chopsticks...China has WMD's and is led by folks who would use them without batting an eye. The bastards even make our GOD BLESS AMERICA and SUPPORT THE TROOPS trunk magnets. (True story, In high school I worked in a drug store that sold tourist trap souveniers...It was not far from the IWO JIMA MARINE MEMORIAL...the memorial is a larger than life representation of the flag raising on top of Mount Suribachi...the stone below the statures was actually quarried from Mount Suribachi....Well sir, We sold little copper plated pot metal statuettes of the flag raising...turn the damn thing over and it read MADE IN JAPAN...the bastards had no shame...no national pride.)....Now if you will pardon me I'm going to go find my chopsticks and rice bowl. DEX | ||
| Bob Melley |
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| Old Salt Posts: 256 | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs China's land based military forces (Army & people's Armed Police) are about 2 million people under arms, almost half that are in the PAP. China's navy is about (people wise ) 250, 000. Hugo Chavez is the nut case in Venezula, (Caesar Chavez is a salad). China's newest most powerful & biggest surface warships are the Russian build Sovremmeny Destroyers she purchased from Moscow. They are a 1980's design armed with SS-22-N's NATO code name Sunburn (Moskit) ASM missiles...the missiles are dangerous and attack in a high low profile with the final attack coming very low and at Mach 2+. The Sovremmenys aren't good ASW ships. I don't think Russia will sell China their new 22-27-Ns.....China copies everything and then may sell the copies to other bad guys...... China's has now about 12 Kilo class Russian subs....in additon to the indigenous subs she's building now.They are mostly the Project 636 models built for the Russian navy. they have two hulls and the engines are suspended inside the inner hull....so they're quiet at low speed. China's AS missiles are all variants of her Seersucker cruise missiles. China has NO long range bombers (yet).....their naval reconn a/c are mostly based on the old Russian Tu-16 Badgers. Until China builds a LOT more landing ships, she really can't attack Taiwan using foot soldiers.....she does have 1300 missiles aimed at Taiwan...most are in Fujian Province....right across the Formosa Strait from the island of Taiwan. The "new" sub base at Hainan didn't just suddenly fall from the sky.....Hainan has been used as as base for naval ops since before the Vietnam war. China has been expanding her "String of Pearls" island defense chain for two decades.....This includes new bases and an in-depth layered missile defense......cruise missiles, IRBMs+ and ASM missiles on attack aircraft, many of which a/c are Russian in design......Sukoi -27 Flankers .....now China is making them as J-11s. Since China now actively compets with Russian for new military sales......I believe the good old days of Russia selling arms to China may be rapidly coming to an end.... TCM | ||
| Bear |
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Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 781 Location: Port Orchard WA | Subject: RE: Chinese Subs lots of very high def picture on flickr.com under the submarine uboat group and some great overal pictures of US crews etc on submarine veterans (new_chinese_sub.jpg) (chin.jpg) Attachments ----------------  new_chinese_sub.jpg (50KB - 730 downloads) chin.jpg (25KB - 729 downloads) | ||
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