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Skii |
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Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 597 Location: Tucson, Arizona | Subject: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE The post about the service and dangers of those that serve in the military or will serve has made me think about several things. The main poster is writing a book about her brother's service on the USS STERLET SS392 during all war patrols from 44-45. Could he have died for his country YES. Did he NO. I wonder if Elmer ever questioned why he was there. Of course he did. His uniform was a Naval Uniform. Audie Murphy wore an army uniform and I wonder if he ever quesstioined whey he gave up a movie career for defending our county. Of Course he did. We lost many submarines during World Waar II and I wonder how many of them wondered if they should be there to protect our county Of course they did. When you are serving and know that in a few minutes you are going to die do you tear off that uniform Of Course You Don;t. I understand Cora's feelings for Cameron, I don't unerstand why she thinks a marine can die any easier than a submariner. We have just honored a beautiful SEAL with the Medal of Honor. Did he ever think he might die for his country OF COURSE HE DID. Not everyone that serves in the military for his Country dies. Enough of the anti military talk, enough of this recruiters are being paid off to get our young to serve, enough of this only marines take a bullet, enough of this stealing our youth off the streeet to serve,enough of the bully tactics to get those to sign on the dotted line - WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE WHEN WE SERVED. I IN VIETNAM ON WAR PATROLS. I HAND SALUTE CAMERON FOR HIS WILLINGNESS TO PUT A UNIFORM ON AND SERVE OUR COUNTRY AS I AND MILLIONS DID. GOD BLESS YOU CAMERON FOR YOUR GUTS AND COURAGE TO SERVE Dick Jarenski Tucson | ||
| Ralph Luther |
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| COMSUBBBS Posts: 6180 Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Well Ski, Cora and everyone else, we can be killed at anytime, anywhere. Ain't none of us getting out of here alive. That's just the plain and simple part of life. The thing with young people going into the military, whether Marines, Navy, Army, Coast Guard or Air Force doesn't matter, it is a stepping stone to growing up and becoming an adult. As they say, "it is an adventure". To go through life never experiencing that "adventure" is a loss for that individual. We only get a chance to go through life one time and when that brass ring comes along on this merry-go-round you had best grab it and hold on tight because you may not get another chance at it. Forgot something. How many of us have said, "man, if I had only-----------" and then found out it's too late, jack, you blew it. Edited by Ralph Luther 2008-06-19 10:34 AM | ||
| Corabelle |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 2561 Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Reminds me of something I once read, The patient asks, "Doctor, am I going to die?" "Yes my dear...and so am I" Cora | ||
| JrKrup, Skimmer |
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Master and Commander Posts: 1324 Location: Oxnard, CA | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE I can't remember who said it, (had to be someone in the military), and paraphrased here. "You have never truly lived until you stared death in the face, and death blinked." I served on a wooden hulled minesweeper in Vietnam. Yes, it did what it was designed to do. Do I feel like I faced death? No, I don't. Could we have been blown to splinters? Yes we could have. To tell you the truth, I feared some of the bar girls in Hong Kong more than I feared the sea mines. The bar girls presented a real hazard to my health, but the sea mines were an abstract hazard. Now a question, How many teenagers were killed in traffic accidents this year, while driving home from the Senior Prom? | ||
| dex armstrong |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 3202 Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Point of clarification....When Audie Murphy joined the Army he was a farm kid. He served in the Third Infantry Division during the Italian and Mainland European Campaigns...He is proported to have been the most decorated soldier in WWII and Hollywood signed him up to make a few movies to capitalize on his wartime fame. He and the famous combat cartoonist Bill Maulden starred in a low budget film titled THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE (Stephen Crane)based on fictional story about a union soldier who "skeedaddles" after a hard fought engagement.....Maulden went on to be a Pulitzer prize winning author and cartoonist with the Chicago Sun Times and the author of the best selling book UP FRONT that was a narrated compendium of what he considered to be his best European Theater cartoons based on his front line combat savvy characters Willie and Joe. General Patton hated Maulden and considered his drawings disrepectful of officers and a detrement to morale and good order. He was the staff cartoonist for the European edition of the STARS AND STRIPES and Patton spent the last two years of WWII trying to get him fired. The foot slogging infantry loved him and his popularity bullet proofed him. Murphy went on to enjoy a career starring in mostly class "B" westerns and died in a plane crash in the early 70's outside Salem Virginia just south of Roanoke......He is buried at Arlington National Cemetery just off the circle at the Memorial Ampatheater that is the backdrop for the Tombs of the Unknowns....As a field commissioned officer he was entitled to an elaborate tombstone....In his will, he stipulated that his final resting place be marked with a standard "issue" GI marble slab like all his combat buddies rested beneath. For a poor Texas farm kid, he did his family name proud...served his country in a manner all youngsters should strive to emulate....and rubbed shoulders with the members of the film industry but managed to stear clear of scandal, improper behavior and anything that would have tarnished an image he held dear. He was a good American...a true war hero and a class act in the finest tradition and definition of the term. In short, He never gave up a film career to serve his country...Prior to the war the closest Audie had come to the film industry was row twenty at his local Texas two stick. DEX | ||
| Tom McNulty |
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Master and Commander Posts: 1455 | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Very true. To Hell & back was his bio movie where he played himself. I don't know how much Hollywood embellished the movie but I heard Audie accepted it. The Red Badge of Courage was a much shortened version of the original and much ended up on the cutting room floor. Too bad as I understand the long version would have been a much better movie. Audie Murphy was a true American story and what this country embodies. | ||
| dex armstrong |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 3202 Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE My Old Man used to say..."No person...man. woman or child who has never faced enemy fire, artillery bombardment...listened to the staccatto sound of grazing machine gun fire and relieved themselves horizontally in a three foot depression called a slit trench will EVER understand or have the remotest appreciation of what combat is actually like....You can bet your ass, the loudest talkers, the self professed EXPERTS and stump trumpeting authorities are lying bastards who were never there...never at risk....and are nothing but foreflushing blowhards. I hate nothing anymore than a sonuvabitch who piggybacks himself of the hard earned reputation of gallant men. Be on guard against these men who cloak themselves in the flag and wade knee deep in patriotic rhetoric...the SOB.s do it to make up for their own inadequate lives." Col. W.H. Armstrong USA (ret) 508 Parachute Infantry, 82nd ABN in letter written to his daughter 4-17-1952. Cora's brother was ACTUALLY there...we weren't...That establishes a level of credibility and DNA forged validity. Sisters have a Godgiven right to be proud of brothers...I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for one that wasn't...For the life of me, I can't understand this bloody current generation's glee in tearing down EVERYTHING....Why are we constantly peeping up Lady Liberty's skirt trying to catch her on a day she's wearing no panties? What does exposing an individual's flaws accomplish? There are far too many folks in the present day submarine community that relish the opportunity to put people down...diminish their efforts and cast doubt on the value of their contribution. Long ago, there was a Disney movie titled BAMBI and there was a skunk in it...cute little rascal and one of the characters admonished the assembled animals..."If you can't say something good about somebody, just don't say anything at all." No one has failed to heed that advice more than me and I sure as hell haven't lived the kind of life that will come anywhere near having me rolling away a rock on the third day...but I have never cast aspersions on any lad who took it to the enemies of this country...unless he or she returned to whine about what they were owed and how they were shortchanged. FACT...Any man or woman who voluntarily or through meeting their national service conscription obligations put themselves in harms way deserve respect because they risked and sometimes shook hands with Death....Combat is all about inflicting pain, dismemberment and death. The common denominator in all combat is the destruction of human beings and his structures. Elmer was a boatsailor...his sister is working on a book about him...Wonderful. I will buy a copy....DEX | ||
| subvetss |
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| Senior Crew Posts: 186 | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE This post is not about Audie Murphy or any other past hero. It's about an individual making statements implying that volunteering for the Marines during a "dangerous" time is "dumb". I find that insulting. Thanks Skii for this post This is after all a submarine bulliton board and all of us sub-vets volenteered to do some "dumb" service for our country. Joe 'the'Most  | ||
| MAD DOG |
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Master and Commander Posts: 1262 Location: Va.Beach,Va. | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE "and I sure as hell haven't lived the kind of life that will come anywhere near having me rolling away a rock on the third day...but I ............." Dex,the only Rolling Rock you and I will ever see comes in a green bottle.LOL DBF  | ||
| Blue from West Oz |
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Master and Commander Posts: 2357 | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Danger is anywhere you look, and looking hard enough you can find it everywhere. Kathy asked me why do I chose dangerous occupations, 1st Submarines and now maximum security prison. I replied with,, 'you can get run over crossing the road'.....and at the end of the day, it's that simple. So far I have jumped in to save a senior officer from attack and silly me jumped in between two prisoners fighting to split them up whilst others watched.....for some reason it felt like the right thing to do at the time. Other than that, my biggest challenge is getting to work in one piece....you never know if there is some South Carolinian driving on my freeway! Audie Murphy, wow, I haven't seen one of his movies in around 30 years, got to check them out again. Blue *_* | ||
| Corabelle |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 2561 Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: Joe - I will respond to your post later. Edited by Corabelle 2008-06-28 1:11 PM | ||
| Doc Gardner |
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Master and Commander Posts: 2254 Location: Foothills of the Ozarks | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Good Post Ski: My wife describes my service as "he went to sea in a boat that sinks and he went to war with a pistol; so I guess you could say he is a bit of a risk taker". Good thing I never told her about the other "non-regulation" weapons I carried. While I understand Cora's desire to protect her grandson from "all evil" I agree that he will never have another opportunity to experience what it's like to accomplish things he never dreamed he could do. The Marines will challenge him every waking moment and some day he, like me, will look back and say "damn, I really did do that". And, on St. Crispin's Day he will be able to join those of us who served. I'd like to be one of those who welcome Cameron to the USMC. | ||
| Gil |
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| Master and Commander Posts: 1607 | Subject: RE: Joe - I will respond to your post later. Cora, I'm guessing you'll get mostly responses on this site supporting Cameron's decision. If I had a son or grandson volunteering for the Marines and felt like you do that he has no idea what he's getting in to I'm sure I'd feel exactly like you do. After all, I joined the Navy Reserve to get out of a foxhole in Vietnam. Luckily I had the chance to volunteer for submarines and consider myself better for it, but just being in the Navy made me feel safer. After sub school and on active reserve my first set of orders had me going for survival training then riverboat training and the to Da Nang to a riverboat squadron. I got the orders Friday afternoon and went to the admin office to tell them maybe a mistake was made. A chief who could care less about my plight pulled out my personnel folder with the big SG on it. He told me on Monday San Diego would determine if an error was made. Monday those orders were changed and I went back into transit. I was ever so grateful I had gone to subschool on my own time before active duty. When I took my draft physical in LA it was a carnival atmosphere and many were scared. Young kids carrying their wedding licenses, wearing braces, and even wearing panties to get out. I heard guys would drink a quart of soy sauce to build there blood pressure before the physical - don't know if it worked. The guys at the downtown center for running us through the physicals had seen it all and had fun at our expense. It started with telling us to get into two lines and turning their backs after saying those on the right will be Marines and those on the left were Army -- as soon as they turned their back 3/4th of the Marines tried to become Army because they thought it was safer I remember a tech telling us the hearing test wasn't working and file into the next room, when we complied he told us with a straight face congratulations we all just passed his test. I wasn't going to Canada as I felt it was a just war then, but I sure as hell did not want to go to the jungles of Vietnam as many of my buddies did in '67. The Coast Guard and National Guard were not taking volunteers anymore so it was the Navy or draft for me. | ||
| 610ET |
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Old Salt Posts: 438 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: Joe - I will respond to your post later. Corabelle - 2008-06-19 3:06 PM But, let me ask this question: Do you consider volunteering for the Marines during this dangerous time an intelligent thing to do? Remember, there is no draft as there was during WWII, and for a number of years following. It is my belief that Cam really has no idea of what he has signed on for. He has put himself in (a known) harms way simply because he, "hates school." I know about hidden dangers. How many little boys do you know that have hanged themselves on a play slide? How many of us would even have contemplated that when we let our little ones out to play in their own backyard? Cora Of course you are right about all this. Someone else's son or grandson should volunteer. Of course if all of the kids hid under mommy's bed, no one would go. Or is that what you are really saying? | ||
| Corabelle |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 2561 Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: Welcome aboard, Chris. Edited by Corabelle 2008-06-28 1:12 PM | ||
| 610ET |
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Old Salt Posts: 438 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: Welcome aboard, Chris. Corabelle - 2008-06-27 5:27 PM Well Cora, thanks for the welcome but I have been around here for many years, my post count not withstanding. In fact I have been around long enough to think that your real objection here is to the war, not your grandson's service. You have confirmed that Thank you.I don't believe that I've seen any of your other four posts, so in case no one has said this, let me again say, "Welcome." No, I don't think anyone else's sons or grandsons should volunteer for a war about oil, when things that I've read recently say that there is plenty oil in our own U. S. of A. if it were just drilled for. Cora | ||
| Corabelle |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 2561 Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: RE: Welcome aboard, Chris. Edited by Corabelle 2008-06-28 1:10 PM | ||
| Skii |
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Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 597 Location: Tucson, Arizona | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Cora I hope that Cameron's drill instructor does not get copies of these posts -- if he would then he would know during boot camp what HELL war is -- your objection to young men serving in the military to protect the Country you have enjoyed these oh ** years is really quite apalling. I had thought that this discussion was closed, but sadly it has reappeared. You can be anti war, you can be anti military, but don't be anti young men serving. I need someone to protect these United States as I did and millions others have. If we all ran and hid, had mommy to hide us, and coouldn't stand a military person man or woman dying the where would 360 million American's get there protectoin. Look out your front door Cora your Free and some young man or woman is making sure you stay that way. As I said I hope his new drill instructor does not see your posts, and I hope he does not get copies of them as he will need all the courage. strenth, and vision to even becoome a Marine. Wish you would leave your anti war and military service alone now and just go on to your new pictures and new look here. Think we have heard enough boo hoo about your feelings of Cameron's being exploited by good Marine recruits (who have a chest full of medals for there service I am sure). Ski | ||
| QM274 |
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| Mess cooking Posts: 24 | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Good goin Skii. My thoughts exactly. I was holding back cause I'm new here and I couldn't put it as gently as you. Thank you. Scott | ||
| Bob Melley |
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| Old Salt Posts: 256 | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Cora....what point are you really trying to make? 1. Do not like USMC? 2. Do not like US military? 3. Your nephew is a Jerk? Wasting way too much time going through these posts.....what did you expect from the folks herein who joined the military?.....Sure, there are a number of reasons NOT to serve, and a number of them are valid. If your nephew was ignorant of what he was getting himself into, he should speak up.....The USMC has way too many good people, men and women who want to be Marines.....to take a person who doesn't understand what he wants to do when he grows up. Acting the part of a cry baby makes no sense nor does it belong hereon......If this offends you, I'm sorry.....Don't you realize all of us have children, nieces and nephews who serve in the military and who volunteered???? You demean them by insinuation and maybe your own relative, as well. | ||
| Skii |
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Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 597 Location: Tucson, Arizona | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Very well said Bob. I think that the majority of those that are registered or even guests in the BBS are veterans that knew all good and well that the next sound of the klaxon could mean the end or their lives. We volunteered and stayed because we did not fear dying, but knew this was the most honorable way we could serve our country and when finished BE A PROUD SUB MARINE ER. Her anti protect our country and anti military comments and statements have truly been inappropriate here. I for one am glad to see posts telling her to shove her attitude to military recruiters, to service in the military etc. I don't think her statements reflect Cameron's attitude to military service so I will hold back on the jerk label for now. If they were his feelings then it would be appropriate. I think that the good pay, medical, and later college benefits were attractive to him since he did not want to go to school and with limited high school education could not get a job that will pay him as well as this will. Then again many young people (as did I) join to GET AWAY FROM THE LIMITED APRON STRINGS OF THE FAMILY. Hmm wonder if this is the case. She sure does not help a good mental image of him with the ranting anti military and recruit posts. The Peace Corps has limited benefits but he could have gone there. I would also like to remind her that many contries still have a mandatory military service program for their young men - we do not ,ours is a CHOICE. This CHOICE option is because of the Millions of young men and woman that GOT DECEIVED to join the military by INEPT RECRUITERS and fought for these unalienable rights. Lastly to Cora, Cam and any others that do not like what we have, we still HAVE OPEN BORDERS. Anti Military can defect, move, or just get the Hell out of here. Your choice. THIS IS THE FOURTH OF JULY AND WE ALL SHOULD BE PROUD AT THIS TIME OF THE FREEDOM WE HAVE AND THOSE BRAVELY SERVING IN OUR MILITARY TO KEEP US THAT WAY. I FOR ONE AMERICAN AM PROUD OF EVERYONE THAT GAVE THEIR LIFE IN ALL OF OUR WARS AND SERVE TODAY IN OUR CURRENT WARS OFFERING PROTECTION FOR US AND FREEDOM FOR THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE IT. It is hard to understand your Cavalier attitude Cora after listening to your pride in your brother for so many years. I guess you weren't as inspired by his service as I thought. HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY TO ALL. A proud American Dick Jarenski | ||
| Corabelle |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 2561 Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: To Bob (Melley) My nephew is a jerk? Which nephew would that be? I have three nephews around the age of 67; they've all served in the Navy, but unlike Ski, never in a shooting war. I have a nephew who retired from the Army as a Major. Is it him? Or, is it the nephew who never saw military service, but worked as a Farm Loan Officer? Or is it Elmer's son, who had a double major: chemical engineer and mechanical engineer. He was never in the service, but worked for the Navy as a civilian. Wouldn't it be nice if you knew what you were talking about before you posted? Cora | ||
| Corabelle |
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COMSUBBBS Posts: 2561 Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: For my friend, Ski Quote, "We did not fear dying, but knew this was the most honorable way we could serve our country." Really? Is dying the only honorable way we can serve our country? At one point, I thought you wanted this thread to go away. You told me once that for something to go away, one does not keep it going. Anit-protect our country and anti-military? I feel that you did not read everyhing I said, but read "into" my posts what you wanted to see. Cameron has a "limited high school education?" Where did you get that idea? He's a high school graduate. Again, maybe reading something that wasn't there. Quoting you again, "This CHOICE option is because of the Millions of young men and woman that GOT DECEIVED to join the military by INEPT RECRUITERS and fought for these inailienable rights." Huh? My posts were my opinion only. Apparently you read somewhere they were also Cameron's. Where did you get that idea? "Cora, Cam and any others that do not like what we have, we still have open borders. Anti Military can defect, move, or just get the Hell out of here." Those "open borders" are a lot closer to you, Ski than they are to us. You too, are reading things into my posts that were never there, and I think that you know that. I sent you an e-mail which you haven't answered. I'm thinking (just thinking, mind you - don't know for sure) that, for some reason you only want to write inflammatory words for those that agree with you to see. Again, I quote," I guess you weren't as inspired by his (Elmer's) service as I thought." My first thought was to say that you're now treading on dangerous ground. My second thought is that I don't give a diddly damn what you think. Indeed, my friend, do have a happy Fourth of July. I would sign this as you did, "A proud American," since I know that I am, I don't have to tell all my friends here on the board., because my true friends already know this. All my love to a man who once told me that he considered himself a happy person, so be happy, Cora Edited by Corabelle 2008-06-30 9:10 PM | ||
| MAD DOG |
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Master and Commander Posts: 1262 Location: Va.Beach,Va. | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE Cora,I can't add a whole lot to the articulate posts by Bob,Skii.and others. I will,however,remind you that almost all of us on this BBS have served honorably in the armed forces of The United States.We all have great admiration and gratitude for the service of our Grandfathers,Fathers,Grandmothers.Mothers. Aunts & Uncles who have served before us and provided the freedoms that we so richly enjoy .We owe them a debt that can never be repaid.We all,also have children.grandchildren.neices & nephews who are serving or will serve ,hopefully in an honorable fashion ,and return home safely. We fully understand your love and concern for Cam and certainly wish him no harm. I thnk we and you are in agreement as to the above but,as stated in other posts, this BBS is not the proper venue for anti-war,anti-military,and just plain anti- American,bitching and moaning,poor old Antie Cora rhetoric. Cora ,you and I,once upon a time,exchanged e-mails on the subject "Patriotism". I suggest you review those e-mails and rethink your posts. Edited by MAD DOG 2008-07-01 1:47 AM | ||
| TSpoon |
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| Great Sage of the Sea Posts: 561 | Subject: RE: WE ALL COULD HAVE DIED SOMEWHERE I was goin to stay out of this dog fight as I too am one of those high school grads who hated school and joined the Navy Oct 17, 1961 at age 17. I joined to see the world, learn something, and according to some to stay out of jail. Besides I had heard a lot of stories from older guys in the neighborhood about what $1.25 could buy you in Japan. By the time I got there the price had risen to $5 for all night. Still a bargain. What Cora doesn't understand and some of you have pointed out to her that this is primarly a board used by Veterans and Veteran Supporters. Cowboy told her once a long time ago that most girls don't linger here long for that reason. You girls who do stay and understand are a ray of light to we old farts. This is not a place for her to vent her feelings about the President (our Commander in Chief) or what our Military Brothers and Sisters are doing around the world. We did it before in our youth and all would do it again. The politics belong some place else. Cora let it rest! Now for the real reason I decided to post, just tonight I found out that my oldest granddaughter, Briana, is joining the Air Force. Some of you will remember her from the Bash as she attended with me. She is a Great-great-great-great-great-grand Niece of Charlie Goodnight and Cowboy specifically invited her to attend the Bash and meet the Sons. I asked her , "Why the Air Force", and she said, "You guys will not let me ride the Boats so why not?". I couldn't be prouder of her right now. So Cora, be proud of our youth as they too answer the call to arms. T.Spoon, DBF | ||
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