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At random: A submarine, the TURTLE, was employed by the American revolutionary army to attack the British. It was built by David Bushnell at Saybrook, Connecticut, just a few miles from the present site of Electric Boat Division of the General Dynamics Corporation, and the U.S. Naval Submarine Base.

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COB SS-424

Posted 2008-10-23 12:01 PM (#20733)

Subject: USS SILVERSIDES

To all who took the time to come to my defence in the lamented, unprovoked attack regarding my connection with USSI and Silversides, I sincerely thank you--and after a few short comments, I wish to relegate the matter to the dustbin of other unsolved enigmas.
(1) Barbara and I moved to Muskegon to be near our Son, HMI (FMC) Paul L. Kidd Junior, who is a disabled, Fleet Marine Corpsman from the Hell of Desert Storm; the fact that there was Museum Boat here had nothing to do with it--and at the time, we did not know that a museum building was being built 'to play around in.'
(2) As soon as we bought out home, we had a large 'rain locker' (that is a SHOWER to the uninitiated) in our basement, for the exclusive use of those wonderful, dirty, greasy Enginemen who show up from time to time, making sure that the FBM's will roll over, come Memorial Day Weekend. Our home is a way-station for all who wore the dolphins, and their wives, sweethearts, or 'significant others.' My 'Long-haired Mess Cook,' Barbara, always sets up the 'formal' dinning room with her best china, and she cooks meals for All Hands--meals that would rival the best efforts of some of our best Smoke-Boater Cooks.
(3) Yes, as has been said, I was really allowed to be COB on the last of my seven Smoke Boats. I only did 22 + years (all sea duty) due to receiving a Full Disability Retirement due to rheumatoid arthritis.
(4) My priorities have ever been: a. Barbara, the Kidds and Grand Kidds b. Our Church (c) Escolar Base, Silversides, and USSVI, in that order.

Peace and love to all!

DBF/PLK

steamboat

Posted 2008-10-23 2:09 PM (#20736 - in reply to #20733)

Master and Commander

Posts: 1814

Location: Boydton, Virginia

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

Paul, since I am the one who started this thread a couple weeks ago, I want to appologize for the negative posts. I didn't have a clue that it would devolve into such a bru-ha-ha. I hope to spend some time on the Old Girl some day, helping out on a field day. She is such a beauty, and so unexpected to see her in the middle of the Great Lakes. Hopefully there can be a turn-around in the maintenance and management so She can be available for our grand-children to discover what we all did during our time in the Navy.
"Keep on keeping on"
Zero bubble,
Steamboat sends

snakeyez

Posted 2008-10-23 3:47 PM (#20744 - in reply to #20733)

Senior Crew

Posts: 186

Location: Chunky, MS

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

Paul,

Thanks for anything and everything you do. Every single one of the museum boats needs all the help they can get, in any and every form available.

Come on over to the SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG forum and tell us all about the Silversides sometime.

JrKrup, Skimmer

Posted 2008-10-23 9:55 PM (#20761 - in reply to #20744)

Master and Commander

Posts: 1324

Location: Oxnard, CA

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

Dumb questions about the Silversides. I know she can start at least one engine. Can she rotate shafts? Does she still have the screws attached?

I'm sure this will raise a lot of other questions re: the Silversides and all the other museum boats.

Fred Tannenbaum

Posted 2008-10-24 6:55 AM (#20773 - in reply to #20733)

Mess cooking

Posts: 8

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

"D'Oh!"

Jon:

I mistakenly answered your questions over on the other Silversides string. Here's what I shared:

Dear Jon:

I was present in July 1979 when Silversides got her first main engine (No. 3) running for the first time in more than 30 years. As I understand it, all four mains have been returned to operating condition. Her two auxiliaries also could be run at one time but I believe it has been decades since they have.

Two of those main engines are usually run on the Sunday before Memorial Day.

Power was put to one shaft within the last 10 years. Rumor had it that the motors were suppoed to be preserved in cosmolene as part of the mothballing process but I believe they were actually were not and were dry. Some seals broke and there was some oil spilled.

Silversides does not have her propellers. They were removed when she was mothballed in April 1946. Two props are on display at the museum but I believe they are from the USS Pompon.

Hope this helps!

Fred

SOB490

Posted 2008-10-24 7:24 AM (#20776 - in reply to #20761)

Old Salt

Posts: 489

Location: San Freakcisco CA area

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

Jon - I can answer your question only with regard to PAMPANITO; however, from what I understand, the basic Navy requirements apply to all museum boats. PAMPANITO's screws were removed before she was turned over to the SFMNPA for museum boat duty. If my understanding is correct, this applies to museum boats in general but I won't swear to that.

As a kid growing up in Chicago, I often played hooky from Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt to visit SILVERSIDES at Navy Pier. At that time there was a USNR contingent aboard and there was a DE tied up astern - FRAMINGTON or FRAMINGHAM or somesuch. Anyway, what I was told is that in order to be brought into the Great Lakes, both ships had to have their screws removed. Whether that was a sea bat type story I don't know, but I do remember seeing tugs being used to move the ships around from time to time.

Three of PAMPANITO's four main FM-38D 8-1/8X10 engines as well as the FM-35A 5-1/4X7 dinky run. All 252 battery cells have been removed, thus there is no normal source of DC aboard except directly from the generators. So we installed a rectifier system to provide 250VDC in order to power various motors, ICMGs, and ventilation blowers from AC shore power.

The main generators are locked out electrically, but the dinky generator is self-exciting so we really have to be careful about not inadvertantly paralleling up with the DC bus (read: huge fireballs!) from a generator whenever we run an engine.

The propulsion bus links were also pulled in order to prevent inadvertant paralleling of ship's DC with the rectifier supply and also to prevent overloading the rectifiers and shore power cable by someone operating the propulsion cubicle.

You can make it idiot-proof but you can't make it visitor-proof!

As an aside comment, whenever we line up to run an engine or need a ventilation blower during our monthly PAMPANITO Breakfasts, we have to go thru the entire boat to make sure no DC motors are turned on that we don't need -- visitors will punch every button they can find so our answer is to keep the DC auxiliary power bus aft and crosstie to DC aux power forward locked off until we need a fuel or lube oil pump or a ventilation blower. The motor controllers are all the direct connect type - i.e. they are either on or off and do not default to off whenever the DC bus is dead so if someone punched an on button, the motor will start when the aux power bus is activated.

Anyway, to answer your question, by replacing the propulsion bus links, it would be possible to turn the propulsion motors and shafts using generator power.

PAMPANITO still has her 1945 configuration high speed motors and reduction gear drive to the shafts. That introduces a whole new level of maintenance requirements, lube oil, cooling water, etc. that isn't easy to do in a museum boat environment (takes $$$ and knowledgeable manpower) so as far as I know, we've never spun a shaft on generator power since the boat was turned over to the Association - or whether that ever happened during her post-war career as a dockside trainer at Mare Island for that matter.

So the short answer is technically, it is possible to turn PAMPANITO's shafts but practically speaking, the answer is no. Plus, not knowing the condition of the shaft seals ( 1945 vintage lignum vitae) I'd sure as hell be afraid of damaging them and creating a Motor Room leakage problem that we don't have at the moment!

Edited by SOB490 2008-10-24 7:48 AM

Fred Tannenbaum

Posted 2008-10-24 7:57 AM (#20777 - in reply to #20733)

Mess cooking

Posts: 8

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

Screws were supposed to be removed from all boats being mothballed immediately post-war and put on the deck, as part of the mothballing process.

Clearly Torsk still had one of her screws on until recently but then again, she would have been retired much later than this and maybe they weren't as picky about removing the screws.

steamboat

Posted 2008-10-24 1:19 PM (#20789 - in reply to #20733)

Master and Commander

Posts: 1814

Location: Boydton, Virginia

Subject: Ray Vargo

I am surprised that Ray Vargo's name has not surfaced regarding the long and laborous job of getting the Silverside's 4 main engines started. He and a small cadrie of volunteers worked tirelessly for years to accomplish this job while he worked a Ford assymbly plant in Detroit. Much credit goes out to "Ray and his Boys" for gettin 'er done!
Steamboat sends

Darrin

Posted 2008-10-25 9:06 AM (#20802 - in reply to #20733)

Great Sage of the Sea

Posts: 561

Location: Belleview, Fl

Subject: RE: USS SILVERSIDES

Fred you are right Torsk still has one screw on and the other is on display in Pennsylvania. And we plan on keeping our screw where it is and that is still attached to the shaft where it has been for many many moons now.

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