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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 557
| Subject: Sailors Can't March?
Who ever claims that sailors can't march needs to watch this:
http://www.whc.net:80/rjones/USN/USN_team.html
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Back in the old days, sailors prided themselves in not giving a damn about marching, sleeping in the rain and eating stuff out of little green cans resembling dog food. Marching and all that other stuff was for ground pounders. The theory was that fancy marching and precision drilling was for halftime bands, circus parades and the Radio City Rockettes and had nothing to do with America's reputation as the world's finest seagoing fighting force. "Show ponies ain't got a damn thing to do with sinkin' ships. landing troops, guarding the sea lanes and projecting sea power and national resolve and intent. You wanna prance around, join the Marines or the Army...or the Grambling Marching Band....You wanna be recognized around the world as a force to be respected for it's fighting record, join America's forces afloat...The only thing in the United States Navy that remotely resembles a marching formation is "Two Sailors Going The Same Way, The Sane Day." Chief Bates, Basic Sub School 1959...WWII Combat Pin and Victory Medal.....Once he was marching us down to the Lower Base and some jarhead yelled "Hey Chief, There aren't any of your swabbies in step!" "So what? ...fancy marching is a waste of time. We leave it to you bastards who have nothing better to do." Then he turned to those of us in Class 182 and said,"If any of you sonuvabitches want to hop, skip or jump free free to do so." Not wasting time with close order drill was one thing I loved about being a sailor. In the video, did you check out the new toilet bowl shaped raghats....I'll bet some light in his loafers fashion designer who never spent a night on a boot camp mattress came up with that brainchild or some permanent shore duty show pony march master, two hundred miles from deep saltwater. They don't look like sailors...If you want to see what REAL sailors look like...shell out a few bucks...buy the VICTORY AT SEA series and look at the way true naval warriors wore their white hats. The operative word in the title is V-I-C-T-O-R-Y...the way WINNERS wore their issued headgear....It wasn't that sailors COULDN"T MARCH...You can teach chimpanzees to march....It's that marching was a totally absent priority in the Navy I served in...In wartime when the ground pounders took real estate they marched proudly through the towns they took and wanted to look good....When submariners were successfull they did'nt form up in the After Torpedo Room and march through the boat, the skipper described what he was seeing through the attack scope, the crew cheered and every unshaven sonuvabitch on board drank his stronger than asphalt coffee and listened to the sounds of exploding boilers and collapsing bulkheads.....The Navy has always mounted an Honor Guard...a very serious and low key unit used for just what the name implies HONOR...To form a sedate naval representative presence at funerals and military and governmental official cerimonies and state occasions.....It is only fairly recently that they've gotten into the Marching Band fancy prancing and Lippizaner Stalion routine business. I would hate to think that little Timmy who may become a sailor one day, thinks that's what REAL sailors do for a living. The things that should matter to true sailors are firing rates, putting bombs and shells on target and torpedoes intersecting ships and putting a lot of enemy sailors out in the ocean competing with sharks. The line is now forming to burn me at the stake for present day naval heresy...if you hurry you can get a low number and avoid the wait. DEX |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1455
| Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
I was selected for the Ceremonial Guard while in Boot Camp. It was then rejected as I was designated as a Missile Tech when the rate was very critical. It might have been a nice experience. |
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New on board
Posts: 4
| Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Only thing missing was the squad chanting somewhere during the routine, "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog, SIR!"
Sorry for the obscure movie (and Army) reference.
LRod
Edited by LRod 2008-12-07 8:18 AM
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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Don't know Dex. I was noticing the hats and saying to myself that was the way I rolled my hats back in the 60's and you don't see that now. We had 20 active duty sailors in the Vets Parade and I don't recall a single rolled hat. The Navy is too PC now to allow expression like that. Here's the 2008 parade pics. Take a look for yourself.
http://gertrude-check.up-scope.org/08auburn/
(Thanks to Bremerton Base for the slide show) |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1431
| Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Dear Mr. Shaddock, we can call you Mr. since you are no longer on the active rolls. It is not that we, esp. sub sailors, can,t march, we didn't want to march. That form of motility required a sense of military organization which goes against our sub sailor instincts. We could do the basic walk, amble,trot, trip,run, stumble swagger, stagger, strut, skid, skip, flop, fall, flip, drop, crawl, and especially chase.... after womens, but marchin isn't in our genetic make up and not a part of our birth right   |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
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Senior Crew
Posts: 157
Location: Clarinda, IA | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
As Gil knows the world is full of people who will tell you why they can't, won't, don't want to do something. Actually many of us did march and did enjoy it. Just exchanged emails with Tim VeArd and both of us were in marching bands and groups in and out of the Navy. I played with the Service School Command Band while at A school and enjoyed going out each weekend to see new people, some of who we saw over and over again as they played in the same parades we did. Our honor guard for the band had just come from a stint at Washington DC and taught us all the little tricks and we had fun doing Queen Anne Salutes, extc. I also learned things about spitshinning shoes and keeping uniforms clean that helped out the rest of the time I was in the Navy. Thanks for putting this up here Gil. I enjoyed all the many aspects of what I participated in while in the Navy and while there of course, heard many who griped no matter what it was. I qualified by the way, just two years after one of our previous posters. Maybe it changed a lot in those two years, but doubt it. Probably had to do with whether one wanted to learn new things and advance or lived in a past that never really existed. I also know that it took many hundreds of hours of practice to reach the precision these guys have and I am sure they are rightfully very proud of what they can do. I know I am proud of seeing them represent us.
Viejo
Edited by viejo 2008-12-07 12:52 PM
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
With decisions being made to cancel scheduled ship construction...Cutbacks being made to many critical Navy programs....Base closings....Functions that used to be manned by American bluejackets being turned over to civilian contractors....When the manpower requirements of the United States Navy are so critical that combat required elements are being reduced or eliminated....It's nice to know that some guy who used to march in a high school band and blow a horn, play an instrument or bang a drum...finds a bunch of garrison, non combat contributing precision rifle tossers relavent to national defense....God help us. DEX |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
By the way, I left out something....You know the guys I like to know are out there REPRESENTING US....The men passing cordite bags in the turrets of American fighting ships....Men arming naval planes on aircraft carriers....Corpsmen taking care of wounded sailors....Men serving aboard deployed submarines....SEALS searching the God forsaken hills of Northern Pakistan rooting out the despicable sonuvabitches who brought ud 9-11....The great folks at sea interdicting drug smugglers....Tin can sailors out there tracking pirates and other rougue elements....The naval intelligence personnel intercepting terrorist message transmissions....The fine men and women serving at sea, far away from friends and family during this holiday season manning the saltwater bulwarks of our FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE....The pilots who are overflying the bad guys and parking high explosive down the chimneys of their mud huts....The Navy surgical teams pulling roadside bomb shrapnel out of eighteen year old volunteers....These are the people that I am proud represent me and my family....It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a bunch of permanent shore duty, brown bagging precision rifle tossers, feeling good or the fact that they enjoyed parading around in a high school band....They are sailors....Do they still say, "Sailors belong on ships and Ships belong at sea,"? That used to be the primary mission of a fighting Navy.....Whew...What in the hell happened? DEX |
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Old Salt
Posts: 359
Location: Saco, Maine | Subject: What happened?
Thankfully some people have remembered and honor tradition! |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1262
Location: Va.Beach,Va. | Subject: RE: What happened?
AW Geeeeeeez Dex.
Give the boys a break.
It's not like these guys are making a career out that one billet.Did you notice the silver dolphins on the Lt.?
Some of us horn tooting,drum beating,(Don't know much about that rifle throwing),
and even bagpipe squealing guys were also damn fine boat sailors and combat
soldiers in our time.
You would probably be the first one to bitch and moan if there was ever a
Forth of July,Memorial Day,Veterans Day or even St.Patrick"s Day parade,
without one or more Army,Navy,Marine Corps,or even Air Farce Band spouting
out a good Sousa tune.
Do you make fun of the guy who plays TAPS at Arlington?
Lighten up,Shipmate.
DOG
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Old Salt
Posts: 431
| Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
I hated marching it was another good reason to join the irreverent bastards of the sub force. We were there to be ready to break ships, cities and kill people. Not march to and fro like a bunch of fairy beetle crushers.
And white hats for Gods sake should be worn just across the eyebrows with wings like an A4.
Or worn on the back of your head to make some shore bound surface skimming ol fart chief yell
"You wearing that hat, Or towing it Sailor"
DBF! |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Mad Dog, the guy who plays TAPS at Arlington isn't there for entertainment....He serves a ceremonial purpose...one of honor and respect. Rifle teams are accrobatic exhibitionists who demonstrate a purposeless skill that took as perviously described...hours of taxpayers money to develop. While Skippy is tossinhg rifles in the air and marching back and forth.....some soldier making the same pay is out there, laying his life on the line getting shot at doing what REAL soldiers do....or some sailor is out there freezing his go-diddlies off standing lookout on an American warship...which is what REAL sailors do. As for the officer wearing DOLPHINS...You have any idea what it costs to train a skilled nuke officer or raghat? What in the hell is he doing marching and counter-marching like a Dallas cheerleader in a purposeless display while service men are getting shot-to-hell, blown apart and murdered by the enemies of this country. Personally I would be ashamed to be on permanent shore duty, spinning a rifle...marching around in circles...flipping rifles to other non-productive soldiers....for public applause....when men wearing the same uniform are somewhere using their rifles for their intended purpose and risking their lives.....and guess what? The notes of a Sousa march are just as stirring in a parade if they are played by Saint Cecilias High School Marching Band or the Band of the Local VFW Post.....Send those guys overseas where they can relieve an overpaid Blackwater Rental Soldier.....I grew up around the 82nd Abn...because my Father commanded a Parachute Infantry Regiment in that division....Troops like those rifle tossing strutting peacocks were called "garrison troops" or simply "garri-troopers" one of the most despicable and derisive terms a true combat man can apply to a fellow soldier....."We call em Garri-troopers...they're too far forward to wear ties and too far back to get shot." Bill Maulden (Up Front WWII cartoon caption). In wartime troops who wear the uniform of a combat force shouldn't be parked in a warm fuzzy, no risk billet doing rifle ballet drills. DEX |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
I never could march. Not in Boy Scouts, not on a tin can when I was "volunteered" for a ceremonial team marching in front of Pres. Frondizi of Argentina, not on a DBF, not in the 6th Virginia Cavalry Civil War renacting Group, and not in the Armistead-Hill-Goode Camp of the Sons of Confederate veterans. I always tried to volunteer for any group that did not entail marching, but even now I still get caught up in it.
However, I do like to see that the Navy has not been relagated to "poor country cousin" when it comes time to show our pride along with other services.
Steamboat sends |
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Crew
Posts: 98
Location: Lipan, TX | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
dex armstrong - 2008-12-08 10:21 AM
What in the hell is he doing marching and counter-marching like a Dallas cheerleader in a purposeless display while service men are getting shot-to-hell, blown apart and murdered by the enemies of this country. DEX
He is participating in a rather creative recruitment video used to promote the Navy in hopes of enlisting a few good men and women to replace those who are getting shot to hell, blown apart and murdered by the enemies of our country. |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 606
Location: Citrus County FL | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Just a few points on these sailors. 1. The video was shot in Norway at an international military tattoo -- the USN was chosen to represent the US armed services. Thousands of Norwegians stood and cheered this team -- perhaps those squareheads had no idea that they were cheering a bunch of sandbaggers. 2. Being posted to the United States Navy Ceremonial Guard is an honor -- and the requirements are rigid. The junior enlisted serve two years on the guard before they are sent to an "A" school. The officers and senior enlisted are chosen from the fleet -- and they consider it an honor. 3. The task of bearing caskets and rendering salutes at Arlington funerals is handled by this group of sailors about 20 times each week. Perhaps this should be contracted out so these slackers can get put on a ship somewhere. 4. Here's a couple of websites with more information on these punks: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_4_84/ai_87374255 https://www.cnic.navy.mil/ndw/Programs/CommandandStaff/CeremonialGuard/index.htm 5. Read this too: http://www.pentagonmemorial.net/remember/heroes.aspx?id=112
Edited by whalen 2008-12-08 12:37 PM
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Oh come on there Steamboat!!! I seem to remember that you marched rather militarially like when laying those Hunley Boys to final resting. That "furiener" you had tagging along with ill fitting boots did right well too, however, he seemed a little concerned after reading that sign about feeding the gators.
Nothing like spraying some "Solarcane" on to blisters to put a little pep in your step. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2673
Location: New Jersey | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
whalen - 2008-12-08 11:00 AM Just a few points on these sailors. 1. The video was shot in Norway at an international military tattoo -- the USN was chosen to represent the US armed services. Thousands of Norwegians stood and cheered this team -- perhaps those squareheads had no idea that they were cheering a bunch of sandbaggers. 2. Being posted to the United States Navy Ceremonial Guard is an honor -- and the requirements are rigid. The junior enlisted serve two years on the guard before they are sent to an "A" school. The officers and senior enlisted are chosen from the fleet -- and they consider it an honor. 3. The task of bearing caskets and rendering salutes at Arlington funerals is handled by this group of sailors about 20 times each week. Perhaps this should be contracted out so these slackers can get put on a ship somewhere. 4. Here's a couple of websites with more information on these punks: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_4_84/ai_87374255 https://www.cnic.navy.mil/ndw/Programs/CommandandStaff/CeremonialGuard/index.htm
AMEN TO THIS BULLs**t, WHO'S REAL AND WHO'S NOT. Thanks for the post Whalen.
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 3202
Location: Alexandria, Virginia | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Whalen, I am VERY aware of the ceremonial elements in the Washington DC area....lived here 50 years. There is one helluva difference between the real HONOR GUARDS and these rifle twirlers....and it's a shame you can't see the difference. The Marines at 8th and Eye (I), the USMC Ceremonial Drill Team are actual combat service Marines assigned to the Headquarters Company and the Institute Company....The rifle twirlers catch hell from those guys. Three of the rifle twirlers lived two doors down from our family in the late 80's and two of them realized that being a part of the Team was damaging their career because it contributed absolutely nothing in establishing their leadership ability or toward the professional qualifications that led to NCO advancement...The other guy liked the fact that being on the team was a great way to pick up sweeties and since he was getting out to return to farming in Ohio, he didn't care if he was wasting time...He got out....and I have no idea if rifle twirling enhanced his professional development and stood him in good stead in civilian life. The Army's Guard of Honor is the Third Infantry Regiment....It is just what it says, AN INFANTRY REGIMENT....It deploys to combat and has a distinguished battle history datinjg back to it's activation in Washington's Revolutionary Army and continuing all the way up to the Mexican War (or the War of American Aggression, if you happen to be Mexican). In the taking of Mexico City the 3rd Inf and 8th Inf...took Chapultapec, a critical fortress position held by very young Mexican Military Cadets......They served in the Civil War, Spanish American War...WWI & WWII, Korea, Southest Asia and both Gulf conflicts....They are sharp troops who train for combat, fight in combat and perform ceremonial duties for the nation upon Presidential request....They bury our veteran dead, comfort families, stand watch on the Tombs of the Unknowns and stand watch over Individuals lying in state in the Rotunda of the Capital. For many years, this was their responsibility...then somewhere along the line the other uniformed services got the bug and established their own ceremonial units...the Marines....the Navy....Air Force....and very late, the Coast Guard....then came trick rifle flipping stunt marching formations and increasing showmanship...I think at the collapse of the Roman Empire it was called "Bread and Circus" activity....Great halftime stuff at college football games. But, Whalen...it's not so damn cute and necessary when you consider that some of their more dedicated bretheren are on their fourth and fifth tours in Iraq because of a lack of Army deployable manpower...Guard and Reserve Units are worn out from over use and a total absence of consideration of their families....And here, because of people like you, who can't see the worthlessness of this prancing non combat contributing band of non participants, kids with deployed mothers and fathers get to watch a bunch of fancy stepping male Rockettes who wear the same uniform as their mother's and father's, spin unloaded rifles with no firing pins and toss them back and forth.....Damn, in my day, that was called a racketeers billet. I don't see the value in it....I am a member of American Legion Post 44, THE TOMB GUARDS POST....We provide support for the fine troops who walk post on the Tombs of the Unknowns....Our Tomb Guards Christmast Party is this Saturday ( Men in the 3rd Infantry who are no longer attached to the small unit that walks TOMB POST but are qualified veteran's of the detail...volunteer to relieve the scheduled troops and walk their post assignments so their brothers can attend the party where we give gifts to their wives and childeren, eat great barbeque and enjoy the hazing of the newbies and the pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey skits where the Tomb Guards rib their senior NCO's and junior officers. Most of those selected for the Honor of Walking Post on the Tombs wear the Combat Infantry Man's Badge and ribbons earned by deployment with the "Third Herd", their affectionate term for their regiment. This includes the bugler and the officers in command. There's a world of difference between these guys and the fellows you praise. DEX |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Hey Dex, why knock these guys? They're young and doing a job they were/are assigned to, much like a 3way E-3 Trash dumper got assigned to his job. From the looks of it they are performing their jobs with a lot of precission and that is something a 3 way trash dumper probably couldn't handle. |
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Mess cooking
Posts: 24
Location: Grove, Oklahoma | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Those aren't dolphins on the LT but the surface warfare pin. I think they do a good job representingall of us!
DBF
Jim Mitchell |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1262
Location: Va.Beach,Va. | Subject: RE: Sailors Can't March?
Sorry Jim.
Either my monitor or my old eyes(probably both) are a little out of focus.
They are,however, a sharp bunch of young men. |
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Sailors Can't March?
