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At random: A submarine, the TURTLE, was employed by the American revolutionary army to attack the British. It was built by David Bushnell at Saybrook, Connecticut, just a few miles from the present site of Electric Boat Division of the General Dynamics Corporation, and the U.S. Naval Submarine Base.

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jerrydf

Posted 2009-03-20 1:45 PM (#25149)

Crew

Posts: 57

Location: Ormond Beach, Florida

Subject: Intel!

On the boomers, we tracked super tankers for just that reason. Stay out of their way! Submarines should never go through the Straits of Hormuz when there is another ship coming through. They should have that Intelligence. Something is wrong.

CA-124, SS-377, SS-480, SS-337, SSN-596, SSBN-644, SS-347, SSBN-644, SSN-653

Ralph Luther

Posted 2009-03-20 2:29 PM (#25150 - in reply to #25149)

COMSUBBBS

Posts: 6180

Location: Summerville, SC

Subject: RE: Intel!

2 CO's will be looking for work shortly.

Sewer Pipe Snipe

Posted 2009-03-20 2:59 PM (#25151 - in reply to #25149)

Master and Commander

Posts: 1796

Location: Albany, GA.

Subject: RE: Intel!

If I remember correctly, you crossed transit lanes on the surface, or below "X" feet depth. Someone else that worked on OOD quals correct me please.

Donald L. Johnson

Posted 2009-03-21 3:11 PM (#25200 - in reply to #25149)

Great Sage of the Sea

Posts: 602

Location: Visalia, Ca.

Subject: RE: Intel!

There is much we have not heard about how this happened, but it seems very similar to the other two incidents in the last year or so where submarines got run over by, or sucked up into surface ships.

If the Hartford was operating submerged, she was the burdened vessel - it was her responsibility to stay clear of dangerously close approaches to other vessels. Somebody on Hartford wasn't doing their job - New Orleans should NOT have been allowed to get that close to Hartford. I'd look for the announcement that the CO was relieved, and the Navigator, OOD, and probably the Sonar Supervisor were disciplined.

The New Orleans may not even have known the Hartford was there until the collision occurred. If that is true, her Skipper will probably be in the clear.

Runner485

Posted 2009-03-21 4:12 PM (#25206 - in reply to #25149)

COMSUBBBS

Posts: 2672

Location: New Jersey

Subject: RE: Intel!

We discussed this today at my base meeting. As dbfer's we asked the Nuc's if they (nuc's) do a sonar search of the surface before coming up to PD, which as far as I remember we always did. But after I got into the engine rooms permanently that could have changed.

My other question is this....Are those sonar screens that are used to "listen" really as acute in their findings as our sonar guys ears. If so, how did they miss that Jap fishing boat hit by the Greenville and that really big boat the Hartford just hit. I believe the sonar LPO is gonna get reamed on this situation too.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying older (or the old way) is better....it just seems that way to me sometime.

No more quartermasters to read charts
No more sonarmen to LISTEN
No more radiomen to send cw
No more torpedomen to shoot fish
No more enginemen to run engines
No more engines for enginemen to operate

Ralph Luther

Posted 2009-03-21 5:44 PM (#25212 - in reply to #25206)

COMSUBBBS

Posts: 6180

Location: Summerville, SC

Subject: RE: Intel!

Seems to me, if I remember correctly, the DBs had their fair share of scopes bent and sheared off, and too, there were a few that went down after being struck that never returned and some that had to be lifted and hauled back for repairs.
These days, there is publicity because they're nuc's. With the latest sonar, you'd think the listening would be better.
As way back when and today, feces happens.

Donald L. Johnson

Posted 2009-03-24 12:40 AM (#25290 - in reply to #25206)

Great Sage of the Sea

Posts: 602

Location: Visalia, Ca.

Subject: RE: Intel!

Runner485 - 2009-03-21 2:12 PM

We discussed this today at my base meeting. As dbfer's we asked the Nuc's if they (nuc's) do a sonar search of the surface before coming up to PD, which as far as I remember we always did. But after I got into the engine rooms permanently that could have changed.

My other question is this....Are those sonar screens that are used to "listen" really as acute in their findings as our sonar guys ears. If so, how did they miss that Jap fishing boat hit by the Greenville and that really big boat the Hartford just hit. I believe the sonar LPO is gonna get reamed on this situation too.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying older (or the old way) is better....it just seems that way to me sometime.

(

Last I heard, it was still standard procedure.

As to the Greenville, as I recall the news coverage and the skipper's book, they were tracking the Japanese fisherman on sonar, but the Conn sonar repeater was down, and the FT manning the CEP plot got tired of shoving visitors out of the way and quit plotting, so they lost situational awareness. And the CO didn't do a proper periscope sweep for visual contacts before they went deep... Lots of people didn't do their jobs that day.

Which just may be the case with Hartford, too. We'll just have to wait for the accident investigation report to be published.

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